Catholic bishop appears to threaten, condone, violence over French gay marriage law

He’s France’s top Catholic bishop, André Vingt-Trois, and it sure seems like he threatened, or at the very least condoned, violence today when talking about France’s imminent legalization of gay marriage.

It’s quite a crafty statement from Bishop André Vingt-Trois. He basically talks about how he opposes violence – nudge nudge wink wink – then blames the government for creating a climate that will inevitably lead to violence, by passing this gay marriage law.  In my mind, he’s pretty much condoning, and threatening, violence.

The bishop’s statement is especially creepy since his allies in the French political and family-values right have already turned violent, first against the police, then against a gay man, and then against the lead gay rights group in Paris.

Mind you, there was no threat of violence from the Catholic church when they were aiding and abetting the rape of young children. But consenting adults want to marry, and suddenly the Catholic church starts making excuse for violence and hate crimes.

Catholic priest scandal via Shutterstock

Catholic priest scandal via Shutterstock

The bishop’s statement coming mere days after the French family values movement threatened even more violence.  This is not a coincidence, nor is it an innocent statement from the Catholic church.  It’s the Catholic church trying to inflame passions and incite even more violence – and at the very least, use the already-existing violence of the French family-values right as a cudgel to bash even more gay people, and to blackmail the pro-gay French government.

Below is a Google translation of the French bishop’s statement today – it syncs with the statement in French, that I read.  (It’s not a bad translation.)  Basically the French bishop is saying gay marriage wipes out the differences in the sexes, and suggests that we are all equal. And that by suggesting this, imposing this uniformity on society, the government will force the people to strike out violently.

Again, since the bishop’s allies on the right already are striking out violently – the Catholic church is serving the Mormon role in France, taking the religious lead in bashing gays (Mormonism is officially-considered a cult in France and much of Europe, so they lay low over there) – so when the Catholic church appears to suggest that violence is inevitable, it is a clear statement excusing, and perhaps even welcoming, such violence.

Here’s Bishop’s statement

For us, the new evangelization comes in a changing society and the signs of this change are not lacking. The long months of debate about the same-sex marriage bill revealed divisions that were predictable and announced. These divisions are a good indicator of a mutation cultural references. The invasion organized and militant gender theory particularly in the education sector, and, more simply, the temptation to deny any difference between the sexes is a sign. It is the refusal of the difference as a means of human identification, especially of sexual difference. It is the inability to accept that there are differences between people. We refuse to deal with the fact that people are not identical. They are not identical in their sexual identity, but they are no more similar in their personality, and the essential principle of social life is precisely to people who live together are not identical, manage differences individuals in a peaceful way and not a way of violence.

However, if we remove the means of identification of the difference in social relations, this means that a psychological mechanism that we know well, it leads to frustration of personal expression, and compression frustration leads at one time or another on violence to recognize its particular identity against uniformity official. This is a company that prepares violence. What we see already that the failure to accept a number of differences in social life, leads to the crystallization of categorical claims small groups or subsets identity, who think they can not be recognized as by violence. Our society has lost its ability to integrate and especially its ability to homogenize differences in a common project.

For my part, I think the law for the marriage of homosexuals is part of this phenomenon is the increase in the focus on making the most indisputable point of difference that is sexual difference, and therefore will cause that I evoked: the concealment of sexual identity as a psychological reality and fermentation, germination of a strong claim for the recognition of sexual differentiation. This simple explanation eludes a number of wise minds, who ought to be concerned about social peace in the coming years.

These people are a real piece of work.

Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Instagram | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the Executive Editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown; and has worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, the United Nations Development Programme, and as a stringer for the Economist. He is a frequent TV pundit, having appeared on the O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline, AM Joy & Reliable Sources, among others. John lives in Washington, DC. .

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131 Responses to “Catholic bishop appears to threaten, condone, violence over French gay marriage law”

  1. Butch1 says:

    I have no debate over that; I would like to see them all go away considering how much of a nuisance they have been throughout history, but can you see where that would lead with debating how they would differentiate between capital “C” catholic and small “c” catholic? ;-) It would never end, they would go into hiding and unfortunately start it all over again.

  2. sJames6621 says:

    10 to one – he’s using reaction formation. Psychoanalytic theory that gays driven to self hate are the worst homophobes.

    Dyson of MD senate an example – Everyone knows it except his wife. When his gay BF found out he sent some secret pix and a web story to the wife of Dyson

    DDivorce is is progress after she hired a lawyer to follow her biach hubby and found out that POLITICAL meetings were pubic meetings with another guy.

    Divorce is proceedng

  3. sJames6621 says:

    here excuse for not wearng a wedding ring when questioned at the md statehouse re marriage legislation

    I’ve got arthritis

    So do I and I wear two rings – my wedding ring and gay colors ring bpt on ebay

  4. sJames6621 says:

    41 as of the end of wwII. I havent been able to find anything about what happened when segregation ended in the mil in 1948. We can imagine what the conservatives thought.

    And our local catholic church had a hemorrhage when DADT ended

    God forbid that the other soldiers discover that gay soldiers are protecting our country and in many cases died for it, sometime s protecting str8 soldiers.

    BTW during DADT about 17000 = almost a whole division were tossed out, most with less then honorable discharges (life long impediment to good jobs)

    That included about a hundred gay arabic xlators. We know that delayed translation of intelligence cost the lives of many soldiers.

  5. sJames6621 says:

    the hatred Jews from the church that ultimately led to the holocaust and a madman catholic taking over germany in 1933

    The attempt to force Muslims to go to the “one true church”, and resulted in what was really the catholic crusades that cost the life of 10 million over 500 years> Societies have long memories but not well focused on who should be destroyed in return. (9-11)

    The holy Inquisition of torture and murder of heretics – 100,000 tortured and burned to keep power

    The “early Inquisiiton about 1200 – 1400 – hundreds of thousaands of jews – convert or die. Many committed Massada.

    and re the c hurhc, its all about POWER and control, as shown in how it supported the worst monster on earth – Hitler ) austrian catholic

    teh endless hidden molestation of children – an easy 100,000 in the USA alone

    Celibacy creates abnormal priests

    the first largenon cath xtian group Cathars in France, 20,000. Pope Gregory sent a monk to raise an army and fix them. Took 20 years. when told that only a few hundred were hereitics he said “kill them all, let god sort it out”

    The church hasnt changed . It should be shut down and all its records given to scholars . Imagine what will happen – the word catholic will be the new and worst swear word in the dctionary.

  6. BTW I’ve read that they are the largest land holder in italy and Ireland

    How about using all that dough to provide microcapital loans for desperatly poor peeple in africa etc

    Instead of spending some of it to treat gays like the new blacks in america and elsewhere

  7. Virtually all of the hate groups (per the splcenter) in the USA are right wing protestant extremists – the same people who justified slavery as per the bible and made America the second to last to end slavery in the west.

    here’s tony perkins of the hate group FRC – Kluxing

  8. And of course hatred of a minority. It scares thet people and they send more money to the church. Jews were mass murdered in catholic Europe by the hundreds of thousands in the millde ages because they wouldnt convert to the absolutist beliefs of the infallibles.

    And of course it was the church that created the hatred of Jews that led to the holocaust and WWII and 55 million deaths, incluidng 6 million Jews, 100,000 gays and millions of soviet prisoners

    BTW Fascism developed not in Germany but in Italy. Hitler, mengele, Goebbels, Himmler and Goebbels all were catholic – went to catholic schools in their youth.

    Same re Franco who allied himself with the nazis during the spanish civil war 1936-1939

    Same re Mussolini

    The only one ever EXcommed was Goebbels – he married a protestant.

  9. Mary lived in a society where believing in leviticus was standard and women not a virgin on their wedding day were stoned to death

    1. she was raped by a roman soldier
    2. she sat in a puddle where there were lots of sperm in it . Sperm can live for days outsde the body if its warm. They of course have one goal – find the egg Some swining pool operators put spermacide in the water.
    3. the worlds oldest profession. etc

  10. I should point out that what happened was the church lost lots of its power. Too bad it isnt yet just a horror story in the western world’s history books.

  11. and their sex starved rapist priests blame the moelsted kids for the rapes (kind of like Akin MOand Murdoch IND) -repubs who both lost their elections. Bet a lot of women would like to do a well deserved

    Lorena bobbit on them and the priest. (

  12. FAT chance of refoming marriage in spain by making it discriminatory. their supreme court ruled 7 to 2 that gays have the rightt to be married

    But how about he pope publically EXcommunicating Franco – a catholic who got together with the nazis during the bloody spanish civil war 1936-1939 Half a million were murderd. Franco got the Nazi airforce to do his bombing work for them. The head of the nazi air force (Hermann Georing) said yes – “my young pilots need the experience and practice.”

  13. Bring out the guilotine for this creep. See if he crys and asks for mercy instead of saying he’s going to see god.

    Bet his FAITH will crumble.

  14. Ned Flaherty says:

    The role of NOM should not be diminished or overlooked in the recent trend toward violence of same-gender marriage. France’s entire anti-equality movement has NOM’s fingerprints all over it, and NOM and its sock puppet organizations stateside have a track record of claiming that they are threatened with violence, and then claiming that violence in response is only “natural.” Of course, NOM staff never actually report any of the supposed death threats to police, as it is a crime to falsify a police report, which is exactly what they would be doing.

  15. cole3244 says:

    if i made any noise in a conflict it wasn’t because i was praying, that i am sure.

  16. teh old story about “there are no aethists in foxholes”

    truth be told there are an enormous number of blown up or shot up dead soldiers in foxholes

    One has to wonder how many soldiers prayed out loud and died because they were heard by the enemy.

  17. Butch1 says:

    He should be careful. ” What goes around, comes around. “

  18. Papa Bear says:

    There you go again — dragging facts into a perfectly good conversation…

  19. Ninong says:

    Have you ever seen a photo of her husband, Raman Srivastav? I googled him and came up blank. A lot of other people in India with surname Srivastava — an ‘a’ on the end. Her Wiki bio says she has a son with him, so I guess that son is already out of high school? Her first son must be in his early 30’s, right? I have never known a public personality who was able to conceal a husband so successfully.

  20. I thinks she wears two at a time. Which explains the whoopee cushion effect they create.

  21. Only about 4%. Guess I shouldn’t say “only”. That’s quite a few, when you think about it.

  22. She was a tad too fond of the Concannon. Well, that’s perhaps unfair. She was more than a tad too fond of the Concannon.

  23. In my experience all were definitely not faithful to their vows. Oh Mary, don’t ask!

  24. karmanot says:

    And the Julian Enactments!

  25. karmanot says:

    definitely more in monasteries. However, in my experience all were faithful to their vows. It was only when ‘silence’ was lifted could one detect a ‘gay’ atmosphere.

  26. karmanot says:

    “that somewhere between one-third to one-half of the clergy are gay.” And I can testify to that! The last time I went to morning Mass at the Church of the Madelene in Paris 90% of the attendance were cleaning ladies waiting for the Catholic tourists to clear out.

  27. karmanot says:

    When she ordered marmalade to sweeten her cracker at morning Mass it was all over.

  28. karmanot says:

    Yep, ole’ Idon’tknow!

  29. Papa Bear says:

    no, that seems about right — the other half are definitely pedophiles…

  30. Ninong says:

    Those don’t look strong enough to contain bovine flatulence.

  31. Ninong says:

    As often as the SJ Sharks — after every third period.

  32. Ninong says:

    Who?? Bill Donohue? The Catholic League nut?

  33. Ninong says:

    You could be right. From my personal experience — which was more than 50 years ago — 50% was about the right number then. About half the faculty at the place where I had that experience were gay. Probably one-third of the students were gay but the percentage changed drastically after you got past the first four to six years. In my own class, exactly 100% of those ordained were gay. That was back when seminaries started with 9th grade.

    There was an article (or book?) published several years ago by a laicized priest claiming 40% as his estimate.

  34. I’ve always thought that about half the clergy is gay. Could be more, though.

  35. Ninong says:

    Cardinal Vingt-Trois is just repeating the same line put out by Benedict. Maybe he’s just pissed that France is the country Benedict had in mind when he went off about the rising secularism in formerly Christian Europe? France, like Italy, may be nominally Catholic and culturally Catholic, but it’s not practicing Catholic. It hasn’t been practicing Catholic in a long time. Weekly attendance at Mass in France is the lowest in Europe. They go to church for baptisms, weddings and funerals and that’s about it. Sometimes they even show up at Easter or Christmas, but only if their grandparents are still alive and begged them to go with them.

    A 2004 Gallup poll found that only 15% of French Catholics self-reported going to church weekly. In 2005 the Boston Globe reported it was down to 12% — again based on self-reporting. Virtually all polls based on simply asking someone if the go to church once a week overstate the actual number. The most recent polls in France show that only 8-10% of Catholics actually attend Mass once a week.

    What is so hypocritical about the Church’s open hostility to gays is that somewhere between one-third to one-half of the clergy are gay.

  36. Papa Bear says:

    I grew up in Tejas — They still don’t…

  37. Stev84 says:

    The same can be said for most Protestant sects. There are plenty of Protestant churches (especially in the US) that are outright cults (in the mind and behavior control sense) and have a power over their followers that the Catholic Church can only dream of.

  38. acornwebworks says:


  39. karmanot says:

    Ah, little down arrow who supports the murder of innocents in Latin America.

  40. karmanot says:

    “Extra Dumpy” ROTFL…..great pun RV

  41. Ted Hayes says:

    ” This simple explanation eludes a number of wise minds, who ought to be concerned about social peace in the coming years.”

    Seems the bishop might have been more interested in the “social piece” (of the children) rather than social peace.

  42. Naw – I went ot copenhagen last summer for gay pride since they put through marriage 85-22.

    Went to the main beach about 10 Km north of CP. the north qurarter is where they allow nudity. Lots of nice looking younger and older people.

    the grandmoms though – a couple of them – the breasts hung down to their belly button. Yuk

    BTW ltos of obviosly gay couples also – they had rainbow flags. No one cares in DK. their church is the lutheran church which is the opposite of rome. (same for eg Sweden, Norway and iceland) iceland put in marriage for gays in 2010.

    Vote 49 to 0.

  43. What I was told was that she stayed three days, but everybody had had enough of her after one. Maybe it was the smell. Maybe the wine stains everywhere. But I suspect it was the personality.

  44. It’s hard to believe that until Obama was 7 there were 16 states that still did not recognize the marriage of his parents.

  45. Well teh preists cant tell anything about gender . about 79% of hte kiddies raped were male

    Of course its because of availability – Alter Girls???!!!

  46. Especially one based on faith – From stories thousands of years old wrtten and rewritten translated andd re-translated. The root cause of so much horror in the world re religion is that if you change one thing the whole (often rotten) edifice is open to change. Read Sam Harris’s book – the end of faith. try search engine About $4 used but good condition

  47. prob when everyone who walks within 30 feet of her passes out. She also reminds me of the local religious freak catholic Vitalle in Anne Arundele county MD. Her objection to gays marrying was that she should get special rights also – to have stairways made easier to climb because shes short and heavy.

    BTW almost every commericial and govt building has elevators now. She needs one to go down and down and down.

  48. emjayay says:

    Except for all those Mexican immigrants who unfortunately for the Catholic church don’t have any money.

  49. BTW she spke at I think it was the MD state legislature against gays marrying a couple years ago. she sure got red faced and embarrassed when someone pointed out that she didnt wear a wedding ring;

    BAscally her deal when she ran NOM was that she got 1/3 of the take. In the case btw of NY the catholic church funded NOM to the tune of about $2 million. Kind of explains what the other part of the hatred of gays marrying is about. Its an economic crime that briings wealth.

  50. emjayay says:

    What is the point of posting stupid stock photos here all the time?

  51. And as usual, Maggies idea of protectting traditional marriage is to have not one but two Illegitimate children

    She claims to now be married but no one has seen her husband. The rumors are that he is non – white and the repub party wouldnt support her because theirr bible belt south would have a hemorrhage.

    I remember back In 1967 when I got married that the bible thumpers were having a fit over Scotus tossing the remaining 13 states (once as many as 41) that banned miscengenation

    their claim was that Scotus was destroying the sanctity of the white race.

  52. She wears Attends. I imagine the size she purchases is “Extra Dumpy”. Available at Walgreens. That’s why I included the photo. They’re Walgreens’ cheap version of Depends. Apparently she’s into cheap. God knows what kind of wine she drinks when not mooching off the Church.

  53. If anyone’s disordered its RATZI-nger. The former member of the Hitler youth learned his lessons well. while grownggg up in Germany In 2009 He UNexcommunicated bishop williamson, a holocaust denier.

  54. the catholic church is the Islam of the west. It deserves what it gets

    BTW re the nuns – the sex starved priests didnt just go after the kiddies –

  55. CAttholcism in the US is fortunately on the decline – EX catholcs are the second largest religion in America. Ratzi nuts as he was, is a gift from God. He helped to drive towards the finish line what happened when the church thought that torture and burnings is the name of god and the holy Inquisition were appropriate.

  56. George Melby says:

    Doesn’t surprise me, nor does it surprise the hundreds of people who are leaving the RCC. Soon the only members of the RCC will be found in the cemeteries.

  57. George Melby says:

    Hopefully, they’ll finish the job, regarding tenets, doctrine, theology… this time. Leave them canonically nude!

  58. George Melby says:


  59. George Melby says:

    Depends, Dear, Depends. Or is there really a product such as Attends? Educate me.

  60. The ffench revolution was also about social justice. Breaking the stranglehold of corrupt kings allied with the corrupt priests. Tje catholic church cared and still only caress about money , power and control . Evem after the tortures and murders of the anythng but holy Inquisiion they havent learned anythiing.

    It may well be time to declare that church just another version of the talban/ Al Al Qaida. Put the leadership in the brig at Guantanamo and we will save a lot of money and time having to deal with both groups of terrorists.

  61. George Melby says:

    In the USA, it’s pretty well over already for the Catholic church. Churches are empty, broke, closing schools by the score… yeah, the end is fast approaching and they know it. They just can’t do anything about it.

  62. karmanot says:

    Depends on the occasion.

  63. George Melby says:

    Ah yes… they weave and spin, build and construct. And yet, same sex marriage will pass and win out. In a year’s time, everything will be quiet. New laws will be in effect, fines and jail time for any person(s) or group(s) that commit actions against the GLBT Community. Gotta love those drones! Anti GLBT people… BEWARE!

  64. karmanot says:

    Older than dirt, older than god, my friend. :-)

  65. karmanot says:

    J.M.J. oooppps , that just slipped out. :-)

  66. I just realized what is happening. Instead of the new pope being the front man for demonizing gays with theri desire to be treated equally as per our constitution, he’s using his bishops to do the dirty work, eg in france calling for civil war.

    Francis is just another ugly homophobe who hates gays the way RATZI did. In Argentina he called gays marrying the work of the devil.

    The devil is his mind, just like RATZI.

  67. I read the translated statement and at no time did it make any sense to me whatsoever, especially the first sentence of the second paragraph (in bold). Does it make sense in French? Because what I read was just incoherent babbling.

  68. acornwebworks says:

    LOL :)

  69. PLAINTOM says:

    Screw it, it is time to initiate the Tudor Protocols.

  70. Usually it takes at least seventy years before you can’t tell men and women apart with their clothes off. But by then it doesn’t matter.

  71. I wonder how often she changes them. ;0)

  72. LOL! O’Donohue in drag really would look like her. But he’d need to wear a very tight necklace in order to mimic her purplish complexion.

  73. karmanot says:

    I would hope in which ever country you happen to be peddling your cult.

  74. karmanot says:

    :-) good one Mr. P Bear

  75. karmanot says:

    “in his eyes gay marriage makes genders become indistinguishable.” I thought it was RCC enforced celibacy that made genders indistinguishable.

  76. karmanot says:

    She looks like a thumb with a face painted on it, wearing a wig. At first I thought she was O’Donohue in drag.

  77. Papa Bear says:

    And here I thought I was the only one on here that would remember Francis…I loved that mule!

  78. Papa Bear says:

    and here I thought he was already ‘in Seine’,,,

  79. BeccaM says:


    And ick.

    Also not surprising at all.

  80. acornwebworks says:

    I found that claim of his to be incredibly bizarre. I mean, gay marriage changes everybody’s gender so you can’t tell men from women anymore??? Even with their clothes off??? That’s the oddest darned thing I’ve heard in a long time.

  81. FLL says:

    Good idea. Maybe he’d cool his jets a little.

  82. kevinbgoode says:

    The Roman Catholic Church – official sponsor and protector of straight white male peepee supremacy.

  83. karmanot says:

    Bring it on, the last time the Church whistled such a tune, the French Revolution nearly wiped them off the map.

  84. karmanot says:

    Time to storm Notre Dame, tie that Bishop to a gargoyle and throw him in the Seine.

  85. karmanot says:

    “Francis the Talking Pope” Yep, I could have sworn I saw hooves in those ruby red slippers.

  86. karmanot says:

    I doubt it, Pope Bergoglio was complicit in supporting a tyranny that murdered thousands of students, intellectuals and dissidents by dropping them into the sea from airplanes. The man’s religious psychopath, who babbles about the plight of the poor with one side of his mouth and condemns others to suffering and death with the other. He reminds me of Obama.

  87. karmanot says:

    “they continue to have no frickin’ clue” Indeed, they still think child rape is an institutional hobby of grooming and mentoring.

  88. karmanot says:

    Well, the Church’s enemies have been saying that for over a thousand years.

  89. karmanot says:

    And children are fair game, because they are provocative.

  90. karmanot says:

    Even more basically, what business do withered and pedophile old celibate men have interfering in the business of real life? For Christ’s sake, they think virgins conceive by some holy ghost.

  91. karmanot says:

    We might remind the Catholic Bishop that during the French Revolution, the RCC was a prime target for revenge and justice.

  92. nicho says:

    He used to be a rapper — Andre 23.

  93. microdot says:

    I just saw a great interview with Wilfred de Brujin, the victim of the homophobic violence last week in Paris whose photo you posted a few days ago in reference to this subject. It was on this evenings Le Petit Journal hosted by Yann Barthes on Canal+ here in France.It should up on line shortly on their web site. Wilfred is missing a tooth and a little bruised, but a really charming, intelligent and witty spokes person.

  94. karmanot says:

    Let’s start the conversation with a point of view that the Vatican RCC is not even remotely concerned with true spiritually. It is entirely focused on power and wealth. What the Church considers spiritually is nothing less than brainwashing from cradle to grave.

  95. John – just for you some slightly off-topic gossip which I know to be true but for which I can offer you not one shred of proof. Maggie Gallagher stayed three days recently as a guest at the residence of the infamous archbishop of San Francisco, Salvatore Cordileone – the man for whom gay marriage is “a grave danger to society”, but for whom drunk driving is no problem. Maggie was described to me as “a big fat four-foot lush” who spilled wine on everything, smokes cheap cigarettes and wears Attends.

  96. mirror says:

    Looks like a pretty straight forward threat to me.

  97. Hugmup says:

    The international community recognizes the Vatican as a foreign country. This bishop is the Vatican’s representative in France. Doesn’t this mean that the Vatican is declaring war on France?

  98. Zorba says:

    Probably so, Becca.
    We would do well to practice Satyagraha, and overcome our own demons and fears.
    “If we want to cultivate a true spirit of democracy, we cannot afford to be intolerant. Intolerance betrays want of faith in one’s cause.”
    Another quote from the Mahatma.

  99. Bill_Perdue says:

    This pigheaded roman cultist is a child of the Inquisition, of the roman cults rabid history of anti-Semitism which culminated in the abandonment of French Jews to the holocaust and of a long and terrible history of child rape.

    Any violence will be the fault of his cult. The cults, and in particular the worst of them, the roman cult, should be prosecuted for it’s current and past crimes and have it’s clergy jailed and jailed for life for promoting bigotry.

    if the ‘clergy’ interfere in political or civil matters they should be jailed for life, especially if they promote violence by making bigoted remarks like calling LGBT people sinners.

    If they’re complicit in child sexual abuse they should be jailed for life.

    If they practice (quack) medicine without a license or ask for money fraudulently they should be jailed for life.

    If they haven’t set aside money to pay back taxes, fines and interest since June of 1778 all their assets should be seized.

  100. GoBlue says:

    Vingt-Trois means 23 in French. When did the French start giving themselves numbers in place of surnames? Reminds me of Malcolm X, who rejected his “slave” surname of Little.

  101. Interesting and very revealing that Vingt-Trois makes it about differences between the genders. In his eyes gay marriage makes genders become indistinguishable. It’s a metaphor for gay people being viewed as equals in society to straight people. In other words he’s found an intellectual veneer to apply to his underlying fear that gays will emerge as equals. As that happens, imagine the implications for the Church that continues to insist on holding gays down. Society will leave such a Church behind, making it the underdog – the one that is not equal. Scary stuff indeed. Especially for the insecure.

  102. Thom Watson says:

    Given that we’ve seen no such widespread violence in any of the other countries where marriage equality has been legalized, the bishop’s statement is particularly concerning. Since it’s not an appeal to any actual historical parallels, then, it’s hard to see it as anything /other/ than a wolf whistle to the flock that they should respond violently and that he’s already provided them with their excuse — and their absolution.

  103. BeccaM says:

    Um, yeah. I’m pretty sure he’s saying he believes that elevating women from chattel property status was wrong.

  104. BeccaM says:

    Probably something along the lines of, “I am not surprised.”

  105. 2patricius2 says:

    This is what the document written by Joseph Ratzinger and ordered published by John Paul II in 1986 says: “…when civil legislation is introduced to protect behavior to which no one has any conceivable right, neither the Church nor society at large should be surprised when other distorted notions and practices gain ground, and irrational and violent actions increase.”

    Ratzinger also said in this document that when gay people “engage in homosexual activity they confirm within themselves a disordered sexual inclination which is essentially self-indulgent.”

  106. BeccaM says:

    Re-translated André Vingt-Trois: “Will no one rid me of these turbulent gays?”

    At last the mask comes off. I always thought that deep down, the RCC never truly left its roots of crusades, inquisitions, and witch-burnings.

    I also find it hilarious that here in the 21st century (1) they are still trying to subjugate women and (2) they continue to have no frickin’ clue there’s a world of difference between sexual orientation and gender identity.

  107. So, vive la difference, I guess? I’m not sure how two guys or two women wanting to marry is supposed to threaten that exactly. This seems like a more elaborate and indirect form of the infamous “gay panic” defence (i.e. “My tottering sense of masculinity felt threatened, I had to murder him!”)

  108. Zorba says:

    Unfortunately, very true of a whole lot of people who call themselves “Christians.”
    Mahatma Ghandi was once asked what he thought of Christianity. He answered “I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
    Wonder what the Mahatma would have thought of this bishop’s statement.

  109. wmforr says:

    Men drilling glory holes in the confessional blurs the line between genders.

  110. TMH says:

    “Mormonism is officially-considered a cult in France and much of Europe…”

    That’s a pretty amazing allegation. Can you prove it? Which countries exactly?

  111. Indigo says:

    So much for the joke about the Latin American liberal pope.

    The Catholic Church in France would very much like the monarchy back. That’d fix those darn liberals! But this much I’d be wary of because it was the Catholic Church in Spain that helped trigger the Civil War that ended with Franco’s fascist dictatorship which lasted until Franco’s death in 1976. That’s not what we want for France in the 21st century but that’s clearly what the Catholic Church prefers. If it comes to that, you read here first, s’il vous plâit.

  112. Badgerite says:

    Seriously? The “most indisputable point of difference” between people is sexual ‘Identity’? I would have thought it was something like, you know, are you a mass murder, psychopathic, serial killer or not? ( See legally recognized and unprotested by the Catholic Church marriage of Theodore Bundy while awaiting trial for murder of several college co-eds and one 12 year old girl in Florida). They seem to talk a lot about the ‘soul’ but sometimes they don’t seem to recognize that people have them. And another word for ‘soul’ is content of character. It does not seem to me that this essential element of humanity has anything at all to do with whether your attractions are same-sex or opposite-sex. It is how they are expressed that matters. Yes? And if you want to marry, it says something about that. It means you want that person to be your family. How is that bad????? Please enlighten me in some way that is not pseudo intellectual physco-babble. Egalite! Fraternite!

  113. FLL says:

    You mention a very germane topic, which is that the majority of rank-and-file American Catholics are fair-minded about equality and civil rights. You can see from both polls and election results in majority-Catholic precincts that the Catholic laity in the U.S. are even more progressive than the national average. It is indeed time for them to just step away, especially concerning weekly financial support for the RCC. I suspect that this is happening as we type. The not-so-subtle hints about violence in France from the Catholic hierarchy might just be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.

  114. cole3244 says:

    i was raised catholic, i’m 67 now and i became an atheist at 17 and never looked back including when in times of danger in vn & the foxhole theory by anti-atheists, i wasn’t psychic but i am so glad i think the way i do and my decision is validated every day of my life no matter what the believers say, more because of what they do.

  115. Drew2u says:

    Do you recycle? ‘Cause your last statement is uncanny to what I was thinking when reading the post.

  116. TheOriginalLiz says:

    More and more it’s clear that Catholicism has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus and everything to do with power and control.

  117. UncleBucky says:

    Oh, I agree. This man is either a mouthpiece of the Latter Day Holy Inquisition, or he is a placeholder (again). I don’t expect anything more from the RCC, except from its progressive members. We need to secede from the RCC, progressive Catholics. What is needed are bishops, priests, woman priests and even some religious order members, in addition to laity, to simply STEP AWAY from the now-confirmed perverted RCC (perverted from Jesus, but confirmed as the standard strategy toolbox of the RCC since the 4th century when it was officially started as a “world-wide” organization, first Roman, then missionary, then military, and then for all intents and purposes a secular state).

    Thanks, Nicho.

  118. FLL says:

    That is exactly the rationale that was used during the civil rights era of the 1960s. Southern politicians routinely and publicly expressed their concern that violence would be the inevitable result of integration. You could take the French bishop’s crafty statement and make a point-by-point comparison with many statements by segregation-era Southern politicians. The French bishop may have even been sly enough to do some historical research and read them.

  119. jimcracky says:

    Who is surprised? The Roman Catholic Church has been an institution and instrument of violence for centuries. Why would they suddenly change. They’re violent and they promote violence – burnings, beatings, rape and plunder. It’s what they do.

  120. nicho says:

    Men wearing gold lame gowns blurs the line between genders.

  121. nicho says:

    Sorry, Francis the Talking Pope is a fraud. Don’t expect anything from him — and you won’t be disappointed.

  122. nicho says:

    Meanwhile, the pope upholds persecution of American nuns.

    One of the first people the new pope met with was Bernard “Fugitive from Justice” Law. Law still has a position of honor at the Vatican and diplomatic immunity.

    The first head of government he met with was the extreme right-wing PM of Spain and he urged him to overturn gay marriage and outlaw abortion.

    Well, so much for the “reforming” in the church. New boss – just the same as the old boss.

  123. I read “gay marriage blurs the line between genders,” and all I can see is “we’d go after the unbiblical redefinition of hetero marriage as a contract between two equal citizens if we could.”

  124. UncleBucky says:

    As if: “they deserve what they get”. Exactly. If this attitude is not called out by either Pope Bergoglio or even by progressive Catholics, IT IS OVER for the RCC.

  125. UncleBucky says:

    Yeah, I’m really OFF the RCC anymore, when high-level functionaries in it even joke about violence being the answer to something they don’t like. This thread has gone through the RCC since its beginning in the 4th century (prior to that, Christians/christianISTs were victims of official violence), when heresy, not Roman oppressors became the focus of radical christianISTs.

    Seriously, if Pope Bergoglio doesn’t call this man out, it’s already over for him and his increasingly creaking RCC.

  126. Gkar says:

    Reminds me of a pastoral letter from the Vatican in the late 80’s or early 90’s. In it, the Vatican basically said (paraphrasing)”we don’t condone violence against gay people, but what do they expect when the go around spreading AIDS.”

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