Exclusive interview with daughter of gay man handcuffed, dragged from husband’s hospital bed

UPDATE: A former employee of Research Medical Center, and a current employee of a Hospital Corporation of America (HCA) subsidiary – HCA is the parent company of Research Medical Center – spoke out about this case and said that the hospital does not discriminate against “f*gs.”

UPDATE: Hospital issues new statement contradicting earlier statement to the police.

I just spoke with Amanda Brown, 26, the daughter of Roger Gorley, who was handcuffed and dragged away from the bed of his husband, Allen Mansell, at the Research Medical Center in Lee’s Summit, Missouri on Tuesday.

Amanda, who was in the hospital room when her father, Roger, was taken away by hospital security and then the police, directly contradicts the hospital’s claim that Roger needed to be removed because he was “disruptive.”

She also accuses the police of wearing gloves, and worrying that her father had AIDS, simply because he was gay. It appears, following my discussion with local police officials, that she may have been referring to hospital police – meaning hospital security – as they were the ones who handcuffed Roger, only to have the Kansas City police arrive after and then take Roger away.

Hospital says gay husband was “disruptive and belligerent”

“This was an issue of disruptive and belligerent behavior by the visitor that affected patient care,” the hospital alleged in a statement released Thursday afternoon, after the story had gained national attention.  In addition to intense media scrutiny and anger in the gay community, federal officials are now also investigating.

The incident happened Tuesday around 4pm, central time.

According to Amanda, her father Roger had every reason to be disruptive at his husband’s hospital bedside – his authority as Allen’s spouse, and thus the person in charge of Allen’s medical decisions, were Allen unable to make them himself, was being challenged by Allen’s brother, Lee, in the presence of a nurse.

Roger has Allen’s medical power of attorney, so there should have been no question as to who was legally responsible for care decisions.

Nurse allegedly knew the parties, yet did nothing to confirm Roger had medical power of attorney

What’s more, the nurse, according to daughter Amanda, knew Roger and Allen.  Amanda say the nurse must have known that Roger was Allen’s designated representative, as they had been to the hospital many times before, and had been treated by the same nurse.

“The nurse knew who my farther was, she knew who Allen was,” Amanda told me by phone. “She had treated Allen before, and dad had been there before, dad had signed off on medical treatments before. She should have had all the information on file.”

Roger Gorley Allen

Roger and Allen

Amanda says that the nurse had her father removed because of the loud disagreement her father was having with his partner’s brother, Lee, who had arrived at the hospital room at the same time as her father.

Rather than intervene and inform the brother that Roger was in fact the designated representative of his gay partner, the nurse had Roger removed. This, in spite of Allen reportedly saying from his hospital bed that he wanted his husband to stay in the room with him.

“Allen said he wanted dad in the room,” Amanda told me. “He said ‘I want him here'” as the nurse was asking Roger to leave.

When I asked Amanda if the nurse was possibly not aware of what the fight was about, Amanda responded: “She knew what was going on.”

Nurse had gay spouse removed, even though daughter says other man was more disruptive and belligerent

Amanda says that Lee, the man her father was fighting with, was being more disruptive and belligerent than her father, yet the hospital had her father removed – and then did nothing about Lee’s continued presence.

“Lee was being more crazy than my dad, he was the one who was yelling,” Amanda said. No matter. According to Amanda, the nurse “directed her comments to Roger, ‘you need to leave the room.’ My dad said, ‘no, this is my husband, I’m going to stay with him.”

That’s when the hospital called security to remove Roger, in spite of the fact that Amanda says Allen specifically asked for Roger to be permitted to stay.

Daughter says security assumed dad had AIDS because he was gay

Amanda’s account of hospital security’s treatment of her father, which she posted to her blog, is chilling – it’s still unclear if this was the KCPD or the hospital’s own private police:

When the Kansas City Missouri Police Department arrived they asked my father to leave the room. He said to them, “No. This is my husband and I am going to stay with him.”

The police considered that a violation of a direct order, so they began to forcibly remove him from the room. My father held onto the rail of the gurney as well as his husbands hand with everything he had. The police responded with brut and excessive force. The office began karate chopping his wrist to get him to release the gurney. Then they wrestled him to the ground forcefully enough to knock his glasses off of his face, his hearing aids out of his ears, and nearly break his wrist while they took him down. To handcuff him, they pushed a knee into his back and wrenched his wrists around.

It didn’t end there. The police changed his handcuffs 4 times! They assumed because he was a gay man that he was HIV+. When they drew blood from accosting him in such a brutal manner they freaked out. One of the arresting officers was so offended by my father’s presence that he would not touch him with his bare hands. He wore gloves the entire time and to make matters even more humiliating he didn’t want his handcuffs back. He grabbed them with gloves on, then another layer of gloves pinched between his index finger and thumb as he handed them off to another officer. The officer taking the handcuffs looked at him like he was crazy and just grabbed the handcuffs with no issue.

Interestingly, later the hospital also asked Lee, the man who was fighting with Roger, to leave as well. Why? Because it was Allen, the hospital patient, who asked for Lee to leave. For some reason, this time the hospital was willing to abide by Allen’s wishes regarding who should be with him.  But not when his wishes were for his gay partner to remain.

“Allen was in and out of consciousness,” Amanda told me. “He didn’t want his brother in the room, so he asked his brother to leave. He [the brother] wasn’t calming down,” even after Roger was taken away in handcuffs.

Amanda says the hospital did let her father back in to see his husband today, after her father showed up and threw a fit. Amanda says the family is “planning to respond,” and has been talking with the local ACLU, among others.

The hospital issued a statement this afternoon, blaming Roger, but says it is unable to provide any details of its side of the story. Nonetheless, the statement makes clear that the hospital thinks it did nothing wrong, and presumably will treat other gay couples in this manner in similar situations in the future.

Follow me on Twitter: @aravosis | @americablog | @americabloggay | Facebook | Instagram | Google+ | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the Executive Editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown; and has worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, the United Nations Development Programme, and as a stringer for the Economist. He is a frequent TV pundit, having appeared on the O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline, AM Joy & Reliable Sources, among others. John lives in Washington, DC. .

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577 Responses to “Exclusive interview with daughter of gay man handcuffed, dragged from husband’s hospital bed”

  1. Belinda says:

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    bringing him back to me if you are in any type of problem in your
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  2. MedicWife says:

    Your bit about personal protection equipment is entirely incorrect, misleads the readers, and is meant soley to flame emotion and public opinion. All medical and public safety employees are required to use gloves and other PPE. It is utterly shocking how many HIV/AIDS, even those bleeding profusely, that down right refuse to inform EMS that they have the virus. Only when medics and EMTs review patient records do they start seeing that an infectious disease doctor has been treating them. By then one of them have already been forearm deep in blood and other bodily fluids. They have no way of knowing, therefore universal precautions must be practiced with each and every person they treat or put their hands on. It is also hospital/department policy put forth by The Joint Commision and OSHA. if my husband has to run fluids on me or my son at home he doesn’t wear gloves, but id we go into the EC and nurses have shredded my arms he has to wear gloves to stick me. I’m sorry, no medic, doctor, nurse, fireman or police officer should have to put themselves or their families at risk to satisfy some perceived slight to make the gay community feel better. PPE is a lot bigger than they are. Everything is not always about their sexuality. In medical and public safety every patient or suspect is treated as if they have a communicable disease. They even wear TB masks on the ambulances…for shame!

  3. acornwebworks says:

    You’re right in that most people just use the generic term “power of attorney” and don’t necessarily know what it means. Or, even if they do, will use the quickie form of referral, i.e. “power of attorney”

    However, they also need to keep in mind that there are multiple types of power of attorney *and* what they apply to vary by jurisdiction. If, for example, you have a Durable POA, it is not the same thing as a POA. Or, another example, a POA valid in one state may not be valid in another state.

    So its not a one-size-fits-all thing with a one-size-fits-all definition.

  4. acornwebworks says:

    I certainly see what you’re saying. (Just as an aside, it was the husband’s daughter, not anyone’s niece, who was the witness.)

    The sad thing was that this sure seems to be nothing more than a deliberate attempt to ruin their vacation, as Lee had tried to do on other occasions. Indeed, *that* was how this whole thing began. With Lee (who had no contact with his brother since Christmas) calling the police and saying his brother Allan was suicidal, then meeting them at his brothers house.

    Had Roger been able to get their soon enough, this might not have happened. Had the police had CIT (Crisis Intervention Training), they might not have been so anxious to take Allan to the hospital, particularly after both he and Amanda (Rogers daughter who was also Allan’s caretaker) told the cops he was not suicidal.

    But Allan was tired, dehydrated, and slurring his words…which the cops took to be…what? Symptoms of suicidal behavior? Unfortunately, Lee and his sister were also there, and their claim outweighed everything else.

    [As an aside, we implemented CIT in my community (about 25 minutes from the hospital where this incident occurred) about a year and a half ago, and it’s already making a huge difference in how the police respond to mental health situations.]

    Sadly, we know there is homophobia on Lee’s part. He doesn’t deny it. Sounds more like Allan (and Roger) needs to get a restraining order against his brother and to have nothing more to do with the homophobes in his family. (Fortunately his brother Joe is on his side.) And, sadly, now they have to deal with the “elder abuse” claim against Roger by Lee.

  5. Mason McDaniel says:

    And I’m not sure people here are aware of what POA actually means:

    “This legal status goes into effect only after a physician has determined that you are unable to make medical decisions for yourself, and only lasts for the duration of your incapacity. For instance, in the case of a temporary illness or surgery, your Health Care Agent no longer has that authority as soon as you are capable of making your own choices.”

    If the patient was able to make his own decisions, the discussion regarding POA is moot. Then is just becomes a question of patient safety.

  6. Mason McDaniel says:

    To be frank, as an RN, if I have two parties yelling at each other in a patient’s room, I don’t give a crap about POA. It has escalated beyond who has medical decision-making authorization. No security just swoops in a room and takes someone down. There is dialog first, even with subject who have struck hospital personnel. I have been a party in restraining delirious violent patients. Security first attempts to get the subject to comply with the request to calm down, or exit the room. When someone refuses, they are told they will have to use force if they do not comply. This is a hospital for patients, not a therapy session or arbitration.

    Here’s my take on what happened: people were yelling at each other in a patient’s room with a recent admission to the hospital. Preliminary admission orders were written by the admitting MD. The RN is trying to initiate orders, meds, gather any pertinent history, etc. The family is squabbling over who should be where. The RN asks everyone to calm down or leave the room. Husband/partner says he has POA for patient, patient is coherent enough to say he wants husband/partner in room. RN thinks to herself “there is no situation here that requires POA, and I need to assess the patient.” She seems to have asked him to produce the POA paperwork. As hard as it is to believe, charting software is not created equal. Perhaps the RN does not have easy access or permission to previous admission documentation. Perhaps the software asks for verification again. Maybe she says “can you please give the charge nurse/secretary a current proof of POA. We don’t know, and to be honest, if there’s yelling, POA doesn’t mean squat. So something happens next that convinces RN to call security. We don’t know exactly what that particular thing is. Maybe no one is willing to leave the room. Maybe jerkwad brother figures out if he just lowers his voice he can goad the husband/spouse into more yelling. Who knows. The story is pretty gap-filled. Meanwhile, security arrives, and asks everyone to leave the room. No one leaves, but husband/spouse is more vocal about his right to stay in the room. Security is there to fix the squeaky wheel, not play therapist or arbitrate who has legal rights. Someone has to be escorted out of the room first. Security may have made the call that, hey, this person seems more agitated at this particular point. He needs to come out in the hall first. Patient is saying “NO! I want him in here!” This is no longer the patients call at this point. So maybe the first person they try to escort out grabs the bed and the patient. Bad move. Maybe jerkwad brother is back in a corner out of the way. Security has their hands full anyway with this guy who’s trying to grab a patient’s bed against expressed orders to leave the room. Security takes him down. Not a time for who said what to whom when.

    I can easily see a witness/family member with more info than the RN or security who may have a better take on who is in the right. But just like on COPS, whatever the niece who lives in the spare room says doesn’t take precedent over the guy grabbing onto the bed not listening to the cops.

    Listen to the RN. Listen to security. You don’t have to agree with them, but discuss it outside the patient room. Nothing that I can gather started by a family member or RN kicking someone out of the hospital. Family members or RNs don’t have that power. If it escalates to security, they do have that power.

  7. acornwebworks says:

    I have to admit that I’m not agreeing with the daughter that the whole gloves thing was about the couple being gay.

    My problem is that it was the brother doing the yelling, not the husband…and the patient actually said he wanted the husband there. And that it was the nurse who called security and said only the husband had to leave…even though there were two parties involved. (It wasn’t until security arrived that he took hold of the bed.)

    That, and her refusal to check the POA, and her comment “Yes, we know who you are” struck me really the wrong way. As if *she* had an agenda of her own.

  8. MasonMcD says:

    That’s a dumb cop if he grabbed bloody handcuffs without gloves. I’m an RN in Seattle. Security wear gloves when handling people. Beligerent people are asked to leave the room, POA or not. My guess is the one who grabs the bed and refuses gets the attention of security, vs the guy standing in the corner, regardless of who was at fault.

    Getting people out of the patient’s room is the first priority.

  9. It’s a big change from now. I took care of a man with AIDS a few years ago when I was a care aide. The only time I had to wear gloves was to help change the Ace bandages on his legs.

    I remember growing up in the 80’s and being told by some girl that you could get AIDS from sharing deoderant. I knew that wasn’t true even back when I was in grade 3.

  10. Hollie Roley says:

    Little does Amanda know, but all hospital staff is required to wear PPE (personal protective equipment) when there is hands on contact. As hospital staff, you use Universal Precaution. We look at everyone as if they have a blood born pathogen like AIDS. You (Amanda), should be happy the hospital uses these precautions and doesn’t practice spreading disease.

  11. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    Question: So in your world proof of POA isn’t required? I can walk into a hospital and start claiming that I have POA over anyone I wish and the hospital staff has to take my word for it?

    Because that is what you are implying. Just so you know.

  12. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    Because Roger claimed he had it when he was asked to leave. And then he couldn’t provide a copy of it when asked.

    I thought you were a lawyer and would be smarter.

  13. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    Is standard procedure to ask someone for proof of POA when they claim that they have POA? YES. YES it is John. You are an attorney and you should know that.

  14. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    You accuse people that don’t agree with you of being assholes. Then you ban them.

    I’ve noticed that you’ve deleted a bunch of my comment. Thanks.

  15. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    The fact that you are a moderator on this site is laughable. Go ahead. Ban me. I know you want to.

    I’ve read you article John. You fail to realize that the sexual orientation of a person has no matter when they are being kicked out of a hospital for being disruptive. You are failing at basic logic.

    Take a step back from your anti-gay platform and think about what you would do if you were a hospital security employee dealing with an irate visitor.

  16. Actually that was a wonderfully incorrect recitation of what the federal regs say the hospital is supposed to do. So good try. But I’ve written up what the hospital is supposed to have done, per my conversation with the federal agency that runs the hospital visitation regs, and the hospital screwed up. Next. http://aravosis.wpengine.com/2013/04/missouri-gay-hospital-visitation-remove-research-medical-center.html

  17. What are you talking about? Usually when you write a comment about how you’re always banned, and it’s not banned, it kind of undercuts your point :) We don’t ban people who disagree. We ban assholes. There’s a difference.

  18. Actually what’s bullshit is your selective choice to omit that the hospital has now acknowledged that it asked Gorley for his proof of power of medical attorney. Is that standard procedure when throwing them out for being loud – ask them for a medical power of attorney? No. Something else was going on, and the hospital messed up – they shouldn’t have stopped with the medical power of attorney, as I’ve already explained in detail in another post. Good try, though.

  19. R B says:

    Yes, and I said that the same thing in the comment above. I deleted because I decided to expand and explain directly to you what I meant by homophobia and why I feel it plays a part. It looked confusing to see all three of my comments stacked up right here. So yeah, I will concede that homophobia might not have been the star of the show, but it was definitely part of the supporting cast. Lots of errors to go around. We will see.

  20. Fatty Patty Lew says:


    “Ummm, well I will concede that homophobia might not have been the star of the show, but it was definitely part of the supporting cast. Lots of errors to go around. We will see.”

    And that’s what you wrote to me…before you deleted it.

  21. DeBaliviere says:

    Say what you will about him, his comments are still more relevant than 99% of the other posters on this site. His experience may be dated, but that doesn’t mean it’s irrelevant. Calm, steady and agenda-free wins most arguments.

  22. acornwebworks says:

    All those are nice. But this was what he said…”This AmericaBlog story is 100% wrong on so many points that I can not even counter them all. The story is wrong and the points they make are wrong. What they say is legal is wrong.”

    Unfortunately for him, he retired in 2000…and so was unaware of changes in the law since his retirement. As a result, he presented out-of-date information as fact. And he argued accordingly. He passed himself off as being far more knowledgeable about the situation than others when, in fact, he actually wasn’t.

    He said things like “Not sure that you can listen to what a psy patient is telling you about anything. Sorry to have to say that.” Well, since it isn’t true, he should *not* have said it. He stereotyped egregiously. And what was his expertise based on? Apparently solely on being called in to help occasionally with a disruptive psych patient…as if all psych patients are alike, all are disruptive, and all mental illnesses are the same.

    Sorry…but based on what he said in his many posts, Jim Howard is not any more worth listening to than anyone else, if even that. His experience is out of date…and his reasoning is flawed. His posts promote stigmatization and stereotyping. You may have no problem with that. I find it unconscionable.

  23. R B says:

    YOU can help Roger with his legal fees and fines….his daughter Amanda set up a Go Fund Me page….


  24. R B says:

    Yeah, lets ask all these idiots focusing on this paper issue this question: How many times do you hand a store clerk money before they accept it and acknowledge it?

    Jay: “I gave you $20.”
    Clerk “Oh, I was supposed to keep that?”
    Jay; “Yes!”
    Clerk “Sorry, can you just give that to me again?”


  25. So, whenever atheists get involved in the support of a victim…the story’s obviously slanted? Why does this mentality not shock me?

    That aside, those involved should be fired… It might not root out the problem with the general mentality of those whom work there, but it would at least show them that such behavior is not to be tolerated.

  26. R B says:

    Here’s why I think homophobia played a part. Because I’ve been there, done that and even have the t-shirts. I don’t know if you are gay or faced this issue, but it can be quite subtle and quite clear at the same time.

    My partner of 19 years and I have all the required docs. On file with our banks, the hospital, our care providers, etc, etc. We carry them with us when we travel and have copies with trusted friends and relatives as well. We even have POAs on file with our veterinarian and kennel. We live in a state where gay marriage is illegal per constitutional amendment and being out and gay isn’t quite accepted, but it’s tolerated. We still get side eye and that attitude that you just can’t put your finger on when we conduct business together. I’ve had two “official” run ins over this.

    The first was when my partner was admitted to the ER with a serious cardio/pulmonary issue. We were fine in the ER, but once he went upstairs, even with my docs in hand and in his chart and his verbal consent, I had to assert myself over a nurse who had “that attitude”. However, I went to the charge nurse and together with the patient advocate we sorted it out. Despite that, whenever she was in the room, she would refuse to address me and would only talk directly to him. Guess what? I went to the nursing supervisor and had that bitch put in her place and I mean put good. After that, she addressed me as Mr. “so and so”.

    The other time was when I was pulled over in our leased Jeep. All of our vehicles are joint, but the Jeep was a lease and they wouldn’t do a joint lease for us like they will for married couples. Of course, I had to explain to the cop why I was driving a vehicle that wasn’t registered to me. Despite the fact that my address matched my partners on the registration, I was doing nothing illegal and he could see all the other registrations on his little computer, the cop continued to grill me about “our relationship”. I finally told him that I sucked his dick on a regular basis and if he had any other questions he could call him. That put an end to it pretty quick, but not without being humiliated and treated like a criminal. Now, we actually have a POA drawn up giving me permission to drive the jeep and it’s kept in the glove compartment for the next time I run into a hyper masculine rocco the jocko cop.

    Just the other day I caught flack when I tried to pay the water bill, which happens to be in my partners name even though we own the house together. Again, they won’t issue a joint account unless we have a penis, a vagina and a water meter all in the same place. The CSR at the water authority ran me through a verbal “security check” like I was trying to get access to NORAD or something. He even wanted a phone number where he could call and verify that I was allowed to make a payment. Huh?

    Seriously? Why should we have to go through all of this drama. Why should Roger and Allen? Why should anyone? But yet we face it all the time. It’s insipid, it’s insidious and it’s tiresome. More so when it’s your own family doing it. Even worse when you know that everything you are being put through doesn’t happen to your straight neighbors.

    It’s clear there is quite a bit of family drama over their relationship. So yeah, I’m somewhat cynical that homophobia wasn’t part of all of this.

  27. Arthur says:

    It was a relief to me that the Hospital Corporation of America employee reassured us that the corporation does not discriminate against “fags”. I guess from that we don’t have to worry about the corporation discriminating against nig—-, kik-s, dag–s, wet—-s, or chi–s, or other minorities.

  28. R B says:

    Ummm, well I will concede that homophobia might not have been the star of the show, but it was definitely part of the supporting cast. Lots of errors to go around. We will see.

  29. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    I agree. There is a huge portion of this story that has not been published.

    But to assume that the husband was removed because he’s gay is wrong. That is what this article is about….and it’s bullshit.

  30. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    As an RN, you should know that HIPAA doesn’t apply to a family member who chooses to disclose medical information about a patient FYI.

  31. R B says:

    I just wonder how the brother got involved on that day when Allen was supposedly out running errands with his step daughter? That seems to be the missing part of the story. Of all the drama we’ve been having here…that seems like a crucial fact. I hope that comes out at some point.

  32. UrsusMichaelus says:

    Keep it up with the insults. I’m an RN. I know HIPAA backwards and forwards.

  33. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    OK my take:

    I think the patient was depressed and exhibiting signs of suicide. The brother was concerned and called EMS. The patient was admitted. The husband found out and claims that the patient is fine. The family disagrees. The husband wants patient to be discharged from hospital. This isn’t happening so husband becomes irate and disruptive. Husband is asked to calm down, He doesn’t. Security is called. Security removes irate husband. Husband claims security removed him for being gay.

  34. R B says:

    No I prefer to discuss it and if you have something to add that has a rational basis, then you should add it. So, once again, what do you think happened?

  35. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    I don’t know. And neither do you. But the brother did get involved and had concerns over the mental health of his sibling. I guess you’d prefer if the patient just had killed himself.

  36. DeBaliviere says:

    He’s not rude, he doesn’t use profanity and he hasn’t attacked anyone. I’d listen..

  37. R B says:

    Patty, please just state your opinion or theory without being so duplicitous or passive aggressive about it. Just say it.

    It’s clear he was committed and the brother told them he was suicidal But he was allegedly running around with his stepdaughter doing errands and getting ready for a vacation.

    How did the brother get involved on this day? Why? When? How?

  38. Gregory Benchetrit says:

    I am absolutely horrified but not surprised. How hypocritical of the police to act brutally on someone whom they saw as abusing their authority as spouse by abusing their own authority as police officers!! These are the people we pay to keep us safe and to enforce justice. Yeah, right!

  39. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    Because he’s suicidal. He’s done this before.

    But you want to think it’s because he’s gay.

  40. R B says:

    FPL has some sort of agenda. Who knows. Could be a victim with PTSD or an abuser himself.

  41. R B says:

    I still would like to know how the brother became involved on this particular day.

  42. R B says:

    Yep. Makes one wonder what the agenda behind all of this? Did the guy just hit the lottery or something?

  43. R B says:

    Well, there’s hope for you yet.

  44. R B says:

    NO, it was stated he gave it to them on a previous occasion for their files.

  45. R B says:

    Exactly. What healthcare system doesn’t have electronic records? The one in North Korea?

  46. R B says:

    Not just for people in a gay relationship, for everyone. If you want to advocate be prepared and carry your parperwork, I support that. But the point of what happened is the hospital ignored what was already stated and established.

  47. R B says:

    And another dumbass who doesn’t know what he is talking about. How did you post this? By carrier pigeon? You obviously have no knowledge of the CMS Medicare Conditions of Participation for federally funded hospitals nor do you have any knowledge of these new devices called computers that replaced paper charts and records several decades ago.

  48. R B says:

    So when you go to a medical facility without your ID card, I suppose you are denied service? Because there would be absolutely no file copy or electronic record of who is your insurance carrier?

    You truly can’t be this stupid, can you? You certainly have no grasp of the bazillion rules and regulations concerning the provider’s responsibly to maintain THEIR medical records.

  49. R B says:

    Jay what century do you live in? The paperwork was on file and IN THE COMPUTER from all of their previous visits. It should have bee right there on the ELECTRONIC COMPUTER SCREEN in the ER which displays the ELECTRONIC records and the patient’s ELECTRONIC CHART. It would have been as simple as looking at a line on a screen just like his name and DOB would be listed.

    Furthermore, CMS updated the hospital visitation guidelines in January 2011 (in this century) and POA paperwork and such isn’t needed for most routine admissions when the patient isn’t incapacitated. The patient can simply make a verbal designation. So really, the paperwork is a moot point.

  50. Stev84 says:

    The brother got him involuntarily committed

    The whole story is here:

  51. Stev84 says:

    Still wrong you dumbfuck troll

  52. acornwebworks says:

    The voice of a security guard who apparently isn’t aware of changes in the law since he retired. A security guard who thinks he knows all about mental illness. A security guard who carelessly read an article and then responded to things that were *not* said in it and ignored the things that were. There’s no need to crucify him. Just ignore him. He knows not what he says.

  53. Lynn Stout says:

    Yet another reason why DOMA should be repealed and declared unconstitutional. Only way for same sex couples to have the same rights as everyone else is for them to be allowed to be legally married. Only then can they have the same protections, rights and responsibilities toward one another and situations like this hopefully wouldn’t happen anymore.

  54. DeBaliviere says:

    Don’t you have to be married to have a spouse?

  55. DeBaliviere says:

    I’m sure if her name becomes public, Spike Lee will tweet it accurately. Lynch mobs are good that way.

  56. DeBaliviere says:

    “Heterosexual couples would NOT have to go through these kinds of hoops.”

    That’s just not true. ALL unmarried couples would have “to go through these hoops.”

  57. boop says:

    why was allen in the hospital in the first place? i feel like i need some context here, to better understand how it all lead up to this catastrophe

  58. DeBaliviere says:

    A voice of experience and reason! Crucify him!

  59. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    Recap: P1 tries to kill himself. P2 intervenses. P1 goes to hospital and is admitted to psych ward. P1’s partner doesn’t like P2. P1’s partner claims he is discriminated against because he is gay (although nothing has been mentioned about his sexuality). ……..

    My assessment: P1’s partner is an abusive prick. Keep him away. Keep him far far away. I wouldn’t doubt for one minute that this guy beats his husbands.

  60. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    I googled it. I’m not that dumb.I’m also not that smart to know how to spell shit.

  61. karmanot says:


  62. R B says:

    I can still love you!

  63. Dana Pille says:

    Every time you post something new about this I get more and more disgusted. When are these people going to lawyer up and sue this hospital out of existence? It has no business staying open any longer than necessary.

  64. Chip Council says:

    Yes, I wish this was getting more coverage from Rachel Maddow and Anderson Cooper.

  65. Chip Council says:

    Thanks RB! This is the best way you can help them! Not only does Roger have legal fees now because of the wench nurse at the hospital, the douchebag brother is challenging his power of attorney and filing charges against him for adult abuse. He is bound and determined to dissolve their legal protections as a couple so he can take control of his brothers estate.

  66. ronbo says:

    … said the man who was NOT there. … said the man who suggested “facts” not in the record. … said the man with no legal training.

  67. acornwebworks says:

    Hi Patty…I found this most interesting about whatever judgement was or was not going on:

    “According to an arrest report from Kansas City, Mo., police, a security supervisor at Research Medical Center was contacted by Emergency Room personnel after Gorley refused to leave the room of his partner. The hospital said they did not want to have any visitors to Allen’s room.

    Gorley was told to leave the room by nurses and security, but refused, the police report said.

    “After several verbal attempts to get [Gorley] to leave the room, he continually refused and began to cause a disturbance,” the report said. “[He] began to cause a disturbance by physically resisting security officers as they escorted him out of the patient’s room.”

    Arrest documents say Gorley was placed into handcuffs after a short struggle with hospital security.

    When police arrived, hospital security officials said they wanted to arrest Gorley for trespassing and disorderly conduct. He was then taken to the police station to be booked, documents show.”

    I find this incredibly interesting because it tells a rather different story.

    First of all, “The hospital said they did not want to have any visitors to Allen’s room.” And yet they allowed both the unwanted brother Lee and Roger Gorley’s daughter to remain.

    Second of all, ““After several verbal attempts to get [Gorley] to leave the room, he continually refused and began to cause a disturbance,” the report said. “[He] began to cause a disturbance by physically resisting security officers as they escorted him out of the patient’s room.”

    In other words, *his* disturbance was refusing to leave his husband’s room. even while his daughter and brother-in-law were allowed to stay.

    And, apparently, it wasn’t the police who karate-chopped him and took him down but the hospital security team. (“Arrest documents say Gorley was placed into handcuffs after a short struggle with hospital security.”)

    And it was hospital security who wanted him arrested, not the KCMO police…”hospital security officials said they wanted to arrest Gorley for trespassing and disorderly conduct”.

    So…to me, at least, it seems as though it did *not* come down to the patient but, rather, to the brother and the hopsital.

  68. 2patricius2 says:

    That’s what should happen. Unfortunately, despite Allen’s wishes, and despite the POA that Roger had, and despite the fact that Allen and Roger share their home and the brother was an interloper, the nurse didn’t follow the law.

  69. Derek Williams says:

    …at which point Power of Attorney can be invoked, and his partner had this.

  70. Michelle Gould says:

    If the hospital, care givers and patients would just listen to each other instead of “policies the patient would get good care. Too many caregivers are concerned about policies and not their patients who they need to just listen to.

  71. Tuli says:

    But your years of experience are leading you to write a good and helpful comment. Thanks.

  72. Thanks for info.

  73. I do not know where to start. Do some research and you will find out a lot about Catholic hospitals that might be of concern, especially for women. Things that are interesting to me now:



  74. Ginny_in_CO says:

    Depression can cause suicidal ideation at times. It is not constant or even present at all in some people who are depressed. If you read the daughter’s accounts, Roger, Amanda and Allen’s son were very cognizant of his behavior, they had very exceptional care routines for him and good lines of communication. OTOH, the brother and sister who claimed he was suicidal had been excluded from any and all medical information about Allen for over a decade before he met Roger. It is the critical support part of a committed relationship that keeps many depressed patients from acting on the idea. Family members who reject homosexual children or siblings are far more likely to be a cause of suicide, hence appropriate that Allen did not confide with them.

  75. Ginny_in_CO says:

    RB, do some math. I’m semi retired, don’t do critical care units or 12 hour shifts any more. Please, no bagel accidents. ;)

  76. Ginny_in_CO says:

    Having worked critical care and ED myself, you are missing several important points. I am not aware this was in the ED. Where did you find that? There are indications that the brother was more belligerent and causing problems far more than Roger. Most importantly, you have clearly not read Roger’s daughter’s account of what was going on the day Allen was forced to go to the hospital.

    Amanda was with him because of dehydration issues, making sure he got his meds, and taking him on a brief shopping trip for a haircut and pet food. They arrived back at the house to find Allen’s brother, sister, paramedics and cops concerned that he was suicidal. The siblings had been excluded from information about his medical issues and treatment – for decades – as they had rejected his homosexuality, including his almost 5 year commitment with Roger.

    They had absolutely no basis for this concern. Allen had not talked to them. He was being very carefully assessed by Roger, Amanda, plus his own son, and no specific suicidal issues have been reported. He and Roger were supposed to be leaving for a visit to the Netherlands they had been anticipating for months and the ECT side effects had been factored into that plan. A lot of people with significant medical issues travel to other continents for vacations. I’ve worked clinics at a major research hospital and had patients travel halfway around the globe to come for treatment and follow up. The local ones were helped to connect with essential services at places they traveled to.

    I have personal experience with depression and suicidal ideation, as well as working with depressed patients. Asking about SI is standard. Asking about a plan is standard. Accepting a patient’s responses is standard unless you have a demonstrable reason to do otherwise. A lot of that was in home care settings. There was no reason to doubt Allen, Amanda, or Roger. There was no reason to believe the brother and sister.

    If you don’t understand the CMS regulation on visitation and the consequences of violating it, you should be aware CMS began investigating this Thursday. Furthermore, when a unit is dealing with a patient who may be suicidal, why would they send that person’s preferred visitor/support person out of the room and allow an estranged brother to stay? Roger did not become upset until the brother tried to usurp POA rights – which he did not have. Given Allen’s extensive medical problems, meds, etc.it would have been critical for the hospital staff to have Roger for essential medical history that the brother did not know and Allen might not have remembered- because he was NOT ‘conscious and alert’ all the time.

    That is really bizarre, how can you blame him for getting as upset as he did when the nurse told him to leave and was letting the brother stay, then refused to verify the POA? That is also a requirement if there are conflicting claims. Both parties have to provide the documents. A unit secretary or CNA could have been assigned the search work for Roger’s. Units can get just as hectic and dangerous as EDs. Frankly, I find the ED nurses far less organized, regardless of how busy -or slow- they are.

    “Last month or so when an elderly woman was allowed to die on a floor with no DNR, no one questioned the policies of the assisted living facility that didn’t perform CPR.” Either you were working too many hours or not listening. The debate and discussions were all over the radio, blogs, media, etc. You need to do a better job of researching and reading information.

    So, are you really an ED nurse? Mind giving the hospital you work at? Folks might want to know.

  77. R B says:

    I don’t know who you are, but I think I love you. I would have a bagel accident just to come to your ER.


  78. Ginny_in_CO says:

    It might seem so. Several reasons to. This is on the order of violating HIPPA. They move on that plenty fast. It is getting a lot of publicity. Even if a lot is in blogs and social media, the PTB have figured out that can be worse than the Corporate Echo Chamber. The momentum on LGBT issues, especially with the SCOTUS decisions pending, is more of a plus for the administration than a negative. Due to the momentum, it will be more of a plus overtime. Meanwhile, Gun legislation is not out of the DC mire. Obama is taking a huge beating from progressives on the CPI situation, with the KS XL decision hanging over him like an IED timed to explode. He needs some distraction that will put him in a good light with his base. Whether the WH actually communicated to CMS is iffy, but possible.

  79. Ginny_in_CO says:

    ?? There are two comments from you just below this, both with upratings, including mine. Sometimes specific words will trigger a moderation delay. Check back later.

  80. Ginny_in_CO says:

    Jim, The only part of that comment that was correct was on gloving. It was one of the cops or security officers trying to get Roger to let go of the gurney rail who caused the bleeding. The gloving habit applies to cops as much as health care professionals. Hepatitis is a bigger risk than HIV/AIDS, Hep C is arguably more lethal now.

    As someone else pointed out, you did not read the information in this article, let alone the interviews with Roger’s daughter,Amanda who was taking care of Allen that day. His psych issue is severe depression and some treatment side effects which made him very exhausted. Not suicidal. Certainly not the kind of manic or hallucinating behavior you refer to.

    As an RN since ’77, I have a lot of problems with how this whole thing went down, starting with Allen’s siblings who talked the paramedics, with cops backing them up,into transporting him when the only person who was convinced he was a danger to himself was the brother who Allen had not shared his medical issues with. Roger, with the help of his daughter, her husband and Allen’s son, was providing excellent care. Someone was always with him when he needed supervision, assistance with hydration, meds, etc.

    The hospital reports and Amanda’s have indicated Allen’s brother Lee was also arguing, probably louder and more belligerent than Roger. Facts are important. Making up your own is ignorant. There are plenty of things that have changed in hospital practices in 13 years. Especially the CMS directive on visitation. Violating it creates the same problems with Medicare and Medicaid as violating HIPPA.

  81. R B says:

    Isn’t it surprising that CMS is moving so fast?

  82. R B says:

    Actually, that assisted living facility and that nurse caught a lot of grief. But back to our regularly scheduled programming.

    You do know that the new CMS guidelines allow the patient to verbally choose his support person(s)? No paperwork is required as long as the patient isn’t incapacitated and if so, there is isn’t a dispute among support persons. Also, if a previous DPOA copy was filed, wouldn’t the patient’s electronic chart have some sort of notation?

    Furthermore, this couple was known to the nurse and she was well aware they were a couple and allegedly treated them on several previous vists. The hospital claims they have been recognizing domestic partnerships since 2005, so since this fact was also well established and reestablished, why did they need paperwork to begin with?

    I do agree that things got out of hand and escalated rather quickly in a busy ER. However, so many things could have been done to deescalate starting with the nurse taking the correct side and asking the brother to step out. Or both of them to step out. If the patient presented with a family member, I can see how that person could temporarily have some sort of authority, but as long as the patient is coherent that wouldn’t be a concern. Once the recognized domestic partner showed up, the chain of command shifted to him. Let’s also recognize that Alan allegedly called for his husband to stay. However, by then it was too late, the nurse had enough and it would seem she turned on the husband.

    Also, even though Roger was disruptive, wouldn’t it be better to take him to another location to cool down and sort it out? Why did the cops have to take this to Defcon 4? Aren’t they trained to deescalate situations? Frankly, I’m surprised they didn’t taser him. They sound like those types of cops. The nurse could have had everyone removed until a patient advocate could get involved to sort it out at some other location that wasn’t disrupting the ER. If this all holy DPOA was the only thing preventing Roger’s access, then a patient advocate could have also given Alan a fill in the blank copy right then and there.

    I’m sure everyone respects your job as an ER nurse and a tough one it is; however, that doesn’t make you or this nurse infallible or beyond reproach. Unfortunately it appears many wrong decisions and overreactions were made that night and the combination of all of them was what caused this horrible situation.

  83. Ginny_in_CO says:

    The Gubmint was ON this 4/11! http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/federal-officials-aim-for-speedy-response-to-missouri-hospit “After the arrest of gay patient’s partner in Missouri’s Research Medical Center, federal officials are “working to gather the facts and determine what steps to take in a speedy manner.”” That would be Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS) per their spokesman Brian Cook: “We take alleged violations of federal rules around hospital visitation very seriously.” Better be as seriously as we do.

    Those of you who will be at risk for this kind of flagrant inhumanity, there are people you could try to get involved to get the facility in line. Having a copy of the CMS reg would be a good idea. Ask for the charge nurse, move up as needed to unit manager, house supervisor, patient representative, someone from the Ethics Committee. You don’t have to hide the fact that you are upset, do control the anger. Have your facts very straight, concise, and deliver them as controlled as possible. Deep breaths through the nose and out the mouth slowly will bring the stress hormones down and allow your upper cortexes in the frontal lobes to work. That decreases impulsive actions and words, which will only be used against you.

    I’ve been a nurse since ’77, never saw many negative issues with professionals, especially in person, to an LGBT patient or partner. I really think we are seeing some backlash from people freaking out over the turnaround in LGBT acceptance. Hard to tell how long this will last. One of the key successes for the Civil Rights movement was staying nonviolent, civil, knowledgeable, etc. when treated with anger, cruelty, etc. (Obviously self defense is justifiable) Shalom

  84. Rudy Springer says:

    The nurse seems to be getting a lot of grief from everyone. I too am and ER nurse and I don’t feel he/she did anything wrong and I’ll explain why. I wasn’t there but I can speculate on how it may have gone from the hospital side.

    If you read the post the spouse put on fb, he himself said that the patient was having side effects from his medication and missed ECT for his depression. He himself said that missing said appointments can cause “serious side effects,” and that the patient was “sluggish,” and had “slurred speech.” While it can be a side effect his “DPOA,” considering it “serious side effects,” yet he was out getting a haircut, grocery shopping and preparing for a vacation abroad rather than addressing the “serious side effects,” he was having. Just a point to ponder…

    Upon arriving home the police and paramedics were there as a report was made the patient was suicidal. The post by his spouse stated that the patient “denied being suicidal 4 times,” but truly suicidal people aren’t willingly going to admit it and let someone intervene if they have already made their plan to go through with it. With an affidavit or a 96 hour hold they can take the patient to the ER if he is a danger to himself or others (which he is if there was a report of the patient being suicidal). They don’t need the DPOAs blessing for this. If there is reason to believe he might harm himself you act on the side of safety for the patient. Get him seen and psychiatrically evaluated. Plus he is having all the “serious side effects,” the DPOA has chosen to ignore anyway so a medical evaluation wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing.

    Upon arrival to the ER something escalated and the spouse was asked to step out. He wasn’t originally kicked out of the hospital but asked to step out, presumably to the waiting room. Again, as an ER nurse, I can tell you it is common practice to ask family to have a seat in the waiting room, doesn’t make the nurse a bigot, as some have said. Nothing ever said the patient was so incapacitated that he wasn’t able to make his own decisions, except for the fact that he may have been under a affidavit hold due to the “suicidal” compliant. It never said they were having any discussion of what to do next that required the family and spouse to make a decision. People, he wasn’t on life support and CPR was not in progress. The choice of leaving or staying is out of the DPOA or patients hands if he is suicidal and an affidavit is in place. As an ER nurse, I’m not stopping everything I am doing to find out if a conscious and alert patient has a DPOA to determine of he can sit next to his spouse or not. Keep in mind, you can have visitors but it is a privilege not a right. If you are becoming belligerent and a disturbance you are creating a dangerous environment for me, my coworkers and my other patients as well. Again, it was an ER, so at the same time we are having a family argument of which visitor gets to sit in a room, you potentially have a sick child working to breath who is starting to develop some retractions and seems to be tuckering out some (not a good sign), a chest pain patient you are needing to get checked in and worked up, an MVA with a grieving family that lost one on scene, a kid on bath salts trying to climb the walls to get away from the demons he is seeing, a combative intoxicated person that hit his head and is bleeding everywhere and not wanting too stay but is too drunk to stand or safely walk out the door. While all these other things are going on (all true situations aka my last week) you have a spouse becoming belligerent and hostile. DPOA, spouse, President or Pope, if you are becoming hostile and making it difficult and dangerous for staff to take care of your loved one then you will be asked to step out. Simply that, have a seat in the waiting room, collect yourself, calm down and we will readdress coming to the room once you are calm. If you choose to argue and make the situation more difficult security will be called. Not because you are gay or the RN is a bigot, like some have said, but because you are now causing a scene and creating a potentially dangerous situation. Too often staff in very similar situations in ERs are stabbed, spit on, kicked, hit, punched etc by family or patients, all the while they are just tying to take care of you or your loved ones.

    Once security is involved they try to deescalate the situation and presumably have the spouse step out. Something happened, no one really knows what due to HIPPA and the one sidedness of this story but something happened that the security officers took the spouse to the ground. After doing that, something still happened to make them feel it was necessary to call the police for the spouse to be arrested for trespassing, which that is what it is called when you are repeatedly asked to leave and refuse to cooperate.

    Like I said, I wasn’t there but I hope this gives you and idea of what the other side may have been like. With HIPPA we will never truly know all that happened from the nurse’s side but I hope you all will think twice about assuming she is a prejudice bigot that needs to be fired. A bit extreme don’t you think? Has no one else sat down to question the other side of the story?

    Last month or so when an elderly woman was allowed to die on a floor with no DNR, no one questioned the policies of the assisted living facility that didn’t perform CPR. Now when a hospital stands by a policy to keep people safe and ask belligerent or argumentative people to step out that are hindering staff’s ability to properly care for a patient, we petition and ask for the nurse to be fired because it was an issue of “gay rights” Really people? What would you want the nurse to do if you were the family member grieving, the chest pain patient needing a nitro drip or the parent of a kid who was breathing fast and retracting but doesn’t seem to be breathing as much anymore. Stop everything to find DPOA paperwork of the conscious and alert patient to determine who gets to sit with him? Allow an irate family member to scream, grab the bed rails and cause a scene outside your room? She did the right thing for her patients and coworkers and shouldn’t be attacked for her decision.

  85. Rudy Springer says:

    In or react

  86. R B says:

    Wow, I’m actually surprised. Based on your closed minded, troglodyte discourse here, I would have guessed you wouldn’t have been smart enough to spell “Ratched” correctly. Most people think it’s “Ratchet”. Still think you are shilling douche so don’t go get all big headed or anything.

  87. d3clark says:

    I don’t get asked for an insurance card every time I walk into a medical facility unless I’ve never been there before. I work in medicine and we don’t ask for an insurance card unless: you’re a new patient, if your coverage has changed and once per year to verify that you’re still current with the same insurance co. We don’t ask for a POA, we don’t ask to see a marriage license if you say someone with you is your husband. We don’t ask to see your driver’s license to see if you drove to the appointment legally. We don’t ask for your Social Security card, passport, will or other documents. However, Jay, if you want to carry all of those with you just in case they’re needed . . . you’ll need a large man purse.

  88. d3clark says:

    Having it on file is much more than enough. It didn’t even need to come up in this case. If Roger and Allen both said that Roger was the POA, that was enough. If the brother disputed it, a copy of the POA should have been in the electronic medical record from his previous admission. If this had been a heterosexual couple and hubby had said that he was the patient’s husband, the brother would have been ignored and probably ejected.

  89. d3clark says:

    Uh, one does not “go in and out of consciousness” from just being suicidal. So you missed a major point in your rush to bad mouth someone.

  90. d3clark says:

    Politics has nothing to do with it. It has to do with the law, patient care and common decency.

  91. d3clark says:

    Not at all. I’ve been in many situations like the one described here. If the family/visitors are interfering with patient care, then they need to be counseled to chill for the sale of the patient. If that doesn’t work they all need to be removed. Most comments are about what happened to Roger and rightly so. Yet, the PATIENT was supposedly going in and out of consciousness. The primary need here was to assess and treat him rapidly. That couldn’t happen under the circumstances described.

    Both the husband and brother-in-law were “fighting” and refused to stop. They both needed to be escorted form the room along with other family for a cooling off period. They could settle down and discuss what was best for the patient, while the nurse and other medical personnel did what they needed to do to assess, treat and stabilize the patient. Then, when the emergency for which he was brought to the hospital was treated, the family could have returned. If the nurse and security had done nothing, and Allen had seized, suffered cardiac arrest, had a stroke, the repercussions would have been just as severe. The nurse and other medical personnel would then be excoriated for not saving him.

    I’ve been working in medicine for a long time. Incidents like this can rapidly deteriorate into something resembling a Mixed Martial Arts cage match in less than a minute. Patient and staff safety are primary.

    It’s very easy for all of us to play referee, especially since none of us were there and some of the descriptions of the events differ to a degree. Sometimes, it’s also difficult for those who aren’t in medicine and haven’t been in a situations like these to realize all of the factors involved.

    Believe me, I’m just as pissed off as most of you over what happened to Roger and Allen. None of this needed to happen. The nurse could have handled things better as could have security and the police. I would have loved to be there to make sure that Allen’s brother got what he deserved. I think that RMC and HCA acted despicably and cravenly and are lying in a poor and ineffective attempt at damage control. I hope that Medicare rips RMC and HCA new ones. I’m hoping that Allen and Roger will sue the hospital and PD until they beg. If I were not supportive of that I would not have signed and posted those two petitions. I would not have e-mailed and posted the stooge RMC CEO’s phone number and address.

  92. R B says:

    I’m not sure if he is still there. However, a fund has been set up by Roger’s daughter to help with Roger’s fines and potential legal fees to fight his brothers charge of Elder Abuse.


  93. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    No, I don’t give him a free pass. He’s also at fault.

    I’ve not mentioned this until now, but I used to work in a hospital with a psych floor and we saw disruptive patients and their disruptive families all the time. On the outset the goal is to remove the most problematic person. In this case (I’ll have to defer to their judgement which may or may not have been right) it seems like Gorley was the most disruptive. So he was removed.

    And then, later, the patient wanted his brother removed. This was done as well.

    Ultimately this comes down to the patient.

    The hospital staff is not some group that are there to use as a political tool to enforce or deter gay marriage. They are there to help the patient. If certain family members want to turn this into some gay thing then that is their own bigotry- not the hospitals.

  94. R B says:

    Well aren’t you just witty.

  95. Mark_in_MN says:

    If you pay attention, the disturbance was a result of people, including the brother trying to usurp the rights of this couple and their powers of attorney and relationship. Had the hospital done what was right and proper, confirm the PoA and respect it, any disturbance would have been settled or forestalled. If the brother continued to persue the matter, he should then have been removed. He left or was removed because Allen later indicated that he didn’t want his brother there. There has been no indication at all the he was removed for being disruptive, although he was. Your bet is also not supported by the evidence in various places. It was hospital staff that sing allied out the husband instead if (not together with) the brother.

    And it is a good thing to let the spouse and family in to see any patient. Unequivocally. Hospitals are not prisons. They shouldn’t have the right or power to override patient decisions about visitors while in the hospital. That the seem to think they do is assign of assuming too much power and control and a re infant of that old and unfortunate medical paternalism.

    It should also be seen as good that a person a patient has designated as a medical decision maker through a power of attorney or medical directive is willing to fight, and become disruptive if necessary, to be ensure that the patiient’s wishes and medical care is properly respected and done in the best interests of the patient. Gorley is to be commended for his loyalty and his sticking up for his partner, their relationship, and himself to an interfering relative. He should not be condemned for that.

  96. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    Yes, I’m the nurse. My name is
    Nurse Ratched. I’m going to give you ECT now.

  97. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    I’m an Atheist. I have been since Catholic CCD in the 80’s. But I don’t discriminate against Catholics like you’d like to.

    Virgin births are their belief for Mary. I don’t really care.

    I also don’t discriminate against Muslims or Hindus or Buddhists But you probably do.

    Not cool my friend Not cool.

  98. acornwebworks says:

    And why do you give a free pass to the brother Lee who was the person yelling?? The person who did *not* get asked to leave until later, when his brother made it clear he did not want him there?

    And, yes…you *do* give him a free pass because he was NOT determined to be a disturbance!!

  99. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    It’s ok. I’m sure my comment sent you on a wikipedia and google search escapade that ended up with you now knowing what I wrote is true.

    It just too bad that you didn’t know this before and that you’ve probably tried to spread your misinformation to other people on the internet.

  100. acornwebworks says:

    Perhaps you weren’t paying attention that day in med school when they told *you* that every state has its own laws regarding POA for medical decisions?

    In mine, for example, they could *not* do even emergency procedures on my mom without my permission. And, since my mom had spent the previous 15 years making me promise her certain things repeatedly, if a procedure wasn’t primarily related to pain relief, I would turn them down.

  101. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    “And there is no reason to remove the person with the power of attorney or who is next of kin and delay approval, either, unless they are causing physical harm to someone. ”

    …or causing a disturbance to patient care. This man, Gorley did just that. You can argue all day long about his right as power of attorney, but it doesn’t matter. He became disruptive and was removed. The law does not state that a person with POA can be disruptive in the hospital setting without reciprocity from hospital security. Does it?

    And as a side note, the brother (who allegedly instigated this whole thing) was also determined to be a disturbance to patient care and was henceforth removed from the patient care area.

    I bet the hospital thought it was a good thing letting the spouse and family of an admitted psych patient to see him. I wonder what they think now. My guess is that NO family/friends/POA/NOK will be allowed that gratitude in the near future. Psych patients will probably end up in a 72-hour hold with zero contact because of this mess.

  102. Yep He Did says:

    If Gorley has acted belligerent and there were other patients around, he had to be removed.

  103. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    That’s what a husband beater says.

  104. Goldstein says:

    And hundreds of patients, including some gays, will suffer.
    But you will have your revenge.
    This is a shame, because Research has some great people there.

  105. acornwebworks says:

    No, he was *not* “informed consent”. Where on earth did you get *that* idea???

  106. Goldstein says:

    Sure, harm hundreds of patients because of the actions of a few.
    There are a lot of great nurses at research…they saved my mom’s life.
    Something about the story is slanted…heck, the atheists already have a fund raiser going.

  107. Goldstein says:

    And then you would be prosecuted and go to prison.

  108. Frank Slate says:

    I wonder just how many names you can have as defendants in a law suit.. there are so many.. and the man that said they treat FAGS.. You are staying with your HUSBAND and of course a family member of the patient would carry on since he won’t be in the will,, that greedy pig.. the daughter should harrass that nurse until she delivers those papers.. and of course HCA is that stupid and bigotted all over..

  109. R B says:

    It’s sad that you are so hurt and troubled by all of this. I wonder if you will ever recover from the trauma.

  110. Miss Piggy In SF says:

    Please send a “get well” note or flowers to Alan at the hospital, so they are inundated with positive support for them. Alan Mansell, c/o Research Medical Center, 2316 E. Meyer Boulevard, Kansas City, MO, 64132

  111. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    They are banning people who don’t buy the story of the rageaholic husband and his enabler daughter.

    Gee, I wonder why the patient ended up in the psych hospital multiple times. I’m guessing spousal abuse.

  112. karmanot says:

    You are that nurse aren’t you?

  113. R B says:

    Are they also trained to pick up bloody handcuffs with the “ewww” two finger pinch with double gloves like someone cleaning up dog poop?

    “…to make matters even more humiliating he didn’t want his handcuffs back. He grabbed them with gloves on, then another layer of gloves pinched between his index finger and thumb as he handed them off to another officer. The officer taking the handcuffs looked at him like he was crazy and just grabbed the handcuffs with no issue.”

  114. Naja pallida says:

    That’s one thing I don’t understand. I’ve worked in places that required security, won’t go into details, but if two parties have an altercation that necessitates security to take any action, you remove them both. You don’t take sides. You don’t try to figure out who caused it. Everyone involved in the disruption leaves, and sorts out their issues away from the patients and staff. Once cooler heads have prevailed, then you determine who can return and under what conditions.

  115. karmanot says:

    Interesting that Rachel Maddow didn’t even mention it on her MSNBC show. A Catholic saint took priority.

  116. karmanot says:


  117. karmanot says:

    Love it, mighty wicked.

  118. karmanot says:


  119. karmanot says:

    So, you seriously think in cases of medical assessment cops trump doctors. Just because you were a hired door keeper you think you are some expert? Good thing they retired you Goober.

  120. karmanot says:

    “why did she intentionally violate the law?” Because her prejudice took precedence and she knew that the ‘atmosphere’ of the hospital would have her back. I bet she suffers absolutely no consequences for her bigotry, other than a paid furlough until the contretemps dies down.

  121. karmanot says:

    I hate it when I do that. Maybe I’m getting too old for troll hunting.

  122. karmanot says:

    You are so fortunate to have a loyal, loving and supportive family. It makes for such a better life for everybody. We have made an architecture of legal protection too.

  123. R B says:


  124. karmanot says:

    + LIKE!

  125. R B says:

    No worries, this blog is all over the place anyway. Disqus is freezing and refreshing every few seconds.

  126. karmanot says:

    I know , me too. It is wise to be prepared. I just got a little worked up over all this. It’s like the eighty and nineties all over again.

  127. R B says:

    No worries…at least there are only a few haters in here. It’s a refreshing change.

    Here’s something for you:




  128. R B says:

    Ok, thanks. :)

  129. karmanot says:

    I’m not, by same line I meant agreement. Maybe Ouyevolitu has poisoned my jello. :-(

  130. karmanot says:

    Oppps sorry, hit the wrong reply. We are on the same side.

  131. karmanot says:

    He’s best friends with Turd Sandwitch, who also works in the Cafeteria.

  132. karmanot says:

    Sad sack

  133. olderbuilder says:

    I sure, if you are in a gay relationship, hope you don’t have to find out the hard way. I have been there.

  134. karmanot says:

    From the echoes I hear it sounds like you have your fat head up your ass.

  135. karmanot says:

    You work in the hospital cafeteria don’t you—-the name says it all.

  136. karmanot says:

    Work for the PR of the hospital I see….a paid troll.

  137. karmanot says:

    True, in Missouri they still write on animal hides with quill pens.

  138. karmanot says:

    You are just plain wrong. The Federal Law states that you DON”T HAVE TO HAVE PAPERS! Got it now?

  139. karmanot says:

    :-) I broke a nail doing it!

  140. R B says:

    Are you off your meds or just overly paranoid?

  141. wiseoldsnail says:

    so many of us agree with this statement : the brother of the patient was the disruptive family member and should’ve been evicted

  142. R B says:

    Why are you suddenly attacking me?

  143. karmanot says:

    Flush twice Fatty, you’ve dropped quite a load.

  144. Diana P. says:

    Good luck trying to comment in the blog, even if you are sympathetic to the story, if you happen to try to attempt to induct common sense and not fully agree with Amanda, you’ll be moderated and not allowed to post. Hmmm.

  145. karmanot says:

    Are we ever on the same line…..

  146. karmanot says:

    Licking the toilet again troll?

  147. karmanot says:

    “I wonder why.” Probably ate some of the Jello melody you pissed in and served up.

  148. R B says:

    Why are you trolling me? I’m replying to the Sandwich idot. The new federal CMS rules trump any paperwork requirements unless the patient is incapacitated and it was already on file with the hospital anyway. The patient’s verbal consent was all that was required. All of these facts make the hospital’s defense moot and equate to CYA double speak. Looking at all the comments both of us posted it would appear we are on the same side. Spend your energy fighting the enemy and it’s not me.

  149. karmanot says:


  150. karmanot says:

    “it doesn’t fit your dumbfuck political agenda.” Have a dessert bagel and sweeten up.

  151. karmanot says:

    Nurse Rachett will get back to ya after Mass.

  152. karmanot says:

    Let’s start with Virgin birth and obstetrics.

  153. karmanot says:

    Fatty Head is more like it, Ms arrogant know it all.

  154. karmanot says:

    Your five minutes of security guard fame is almost up troll.

  155. karmanot says:

    Troll, keep it up and you will be rolled.

  156. karmanot says:

    It was on file shit head, er Turd Sandwich.

  157. karmanot says:

    Worthy of your name.

  158. karmanot says:

    You can just imagine what Thanksgiving Dinner must be like with that family.

  159. karmanot says:

    Take your own advice troll.

  160. karmanot says:

    Interesting you would go there sexist troll. That never occurred to me.

  161. karmanot says:

    I’d be happy to demonstrate. Come between me and my partner and I guarantee you will be sorry for it.

  162. karmanot says:

    Sounds like you are qualified to work for TSA.

  163. Elijah Snow says:

    If a relative of mine did this shit to my partner, the first thing i would do once i got out of the hospital would be to kick his mutherfucking ass till i draw blood. I would kick his or her teeth in. No questions asked.

  164. karmanot says:


  165. R B says:

    He doesn’t need paperwork for this since the updated CMS rules that took effect on 1/16/11. Sorry, try again.

  166. karmanot says:

    Thank you, we were just waiting for the Nazi viewpoint on this. And let me tell ya sweetpea we’re not backing down and I heartily suggest you stay out of the way!

  167. karmanot says:


  168. Mark_in_MN says:

    And there is no reason to remove the person with the power of attorney or who is next of kin and delay approval, either, unless they are causing physical harm to someone. The convenience of medical personnel isn’t the only factor here. Dealing with family is part of the job, especially in a hospital setting, and should not be regarded as a complication. A patient is a whole person, and family is part of the package. It makes more work for medical people to have to contact them, explain, etc. It would be much better and efficient to have them available if at all possible, and it may be important for the general comfort and well-being of the patient (taken as a whole, not just as a condition) to have family or a friends present and at the bedside at such a stressful time. There should be an extremely high threshold before even contemplating the removal of a spouse. In general such decisions shouldn’t be in the hands of medical staff, but in the hands of patients and their designee/next of kin. I can tell you anyone who keeps my partner or one of my parents away from me in such a time will have hell to pay, maybe not just then, but eventually. The same if they kept me away from my partner if he was the patient.

    I’m glad you thought it possible to ask if I was taught something in med school, but I come at this entirely as a patient or family member, and as someone quite interested in medical care and medical ethics.

  169. karmanot says:

    ‘We’ will never forget!!!

  170. karmanot says:

    What planet are you from?

  171. R B says:

    I must say, I am pleasantly surprised that the overall majority of the comments here and on the Fox 4 news story ( http://fox4kc.com/2013/04/10/man-no-longer-allowed-to-visit-husband-at-kc-area-hospital/ ) are overwhelming positive and supportive of Roger and Allen and LGBT people. It’s refreshing as we all know these things usually turn into a free for all from the Christian/Facist/Right Wing/Conspiracy agenda crowd.

  172. 2patricius2 says:

    I never call anyone with major depression or even schizophrenia crazy. But major depression is a mental illness. It is obvious from what Roger’s daughter said, that Allen has been suffering from major depressive episodes for years. You are correct, however, that there is no reason to assume, from the description of his depression, that he could not make reasoned decisions. I also think that there is no reason to think people with other mental illnesses are ordinarily incapable of making reasoned decisions. Without going into detail, people in manic states and people who are having paranoid delusions and those with debilitating hallucinations sometimes are incapable of making reasoned decisions. And sometimes people with mental illness (including major depression) do not have the clarity or the energy to make some decisions on their own.

  173. Sherbs says:

    Jim, you’re moron of the most potent caliber. Roger had medical power of attorney, the brother did not, end of discussion. Roger had the legal right to be present with the patient, regardless of relation and regardless of what Lee wanted. Did you actually retire, or were you forced out because of gross incompetence on the job? You have clearly demonstrated your rational ability to think is severely diminished.

  174. acornwebworks says:

    When was the last time *I* called and had to wait for a response? More than 30 years ago.

    As far as having to be “directed”?? I can’t remember…because each room has its own phone number, and I almost always have been called and given the number by the patient or a loved one sharing information.

    I don’t know about you…but *I* live in the 21st century.

  175. Stev84 says:

    1.) They didn’t ask. *He* asked *them* to check it

    2.) They already had it on file
    3.) He didn’t even need a PAO, as the patient said that he wanted his husband there

    4.) Other proofs of a relationship should also been considered
    5.) The brother was never asked for any legal documents, which should have happened

  176. rabenatz says:

    Contact Anderson Cooper/ AC360 from CNN. He runs dozens of stories on gay rights issues per year. If he took this on the people responsible would be in big trouble. I think you can write to them, call the studio or tweet Anderson directly. Calling might be the most effective way, though.

  177. R B says:

    Have a seat right over there and someone will be with you shortly.

  178. Turd Sandwich says:

    They asked for his POA paperwork. He didn’t have it. Next.

  179. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    If a procedure is emergent, then informed consent is implied. No power of attorney or relative needs to be present. And if it’s not emergent, then it doesn’t need to get done right away. Either way, the POA or next-of-kin does not need to be there.

    Didn’t they teach you that in med school?

  180. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    Good for them. Somebody has to tell the truth.

  181. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    I don’t power of attorney means what you think it means. It means if the patient were unable to give informed consent, then that person could make the medical decisions.

    It has nothing to say about visitors for some who was still conscious or not getting kicked out after he started to act up.

    Bottom line is that if you cause a disturbance in the hospital – for whatever reason – you can expect to be escorted out.

  182. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    Sure he did. Because there is proof of that – other than the little hate baiter daughter, that is.

  183. R B says:

    Don’t forget the hospital says in their press release they’ve been recognizing Domestic Partnerships since 2005 yet the minute that was said, it was also ignored. Recognizing the partnership they claim to recognize would have trumped “concerned brother” and provided him with the opportunity to take several seats and STFU.

  184. R B says:

    It’s also disgusting how RMC is spinning this on Twitter.


  185. Mark_in_MN says:

    There is absolutely nothing inconsequential in what I said. Recognizing the importance of human relationships and the effect of stress (and interrupting those in a time of need is definitely a stress) should be central to both medical care and ethics. Not removing a spouse or person with power of attorney is very much about the wellbeing of the patient and their own ability to direct medical care or who makes those decision.

    Allen was reported as being in out of consciousness or at least coherence. Should treatment beyond observation and continuation of ongoing care be needed and he is not conscious or reasonably aware, someone needs to agree to that treatment. General consent is meaningless. If medical practitioners are going ahead with a plan, in the absence of an emergency life threatening circumstance, without approval of that plan by the patient or designated decision maker, there is a serious ethical problem. Removing the person who has power of attorney in circumstances such as this is a huge problem and the height of inappropriate use of (improperly) assumed power. It strips the patient of their autonomy and their right to direct medical treatment as they see fit or to designate who should make those decisions on their behalf. One does not give up control of their medical decisions and decision making simply because the walk through the doors of a hospital. And they should not. We’ve come a long way in the last few decades to move away from paternalism in medicine. We still have a ways to go. Stories like this, and those who would defend removing a spouse or person with power of attorney if medical staff don’t like them there, make that very clear.

  186. R B says:

    As well as the new CMS guidelines of 1/16/11 that require federally funded hospitals to respect the patient’s visitation choices.

  187. R B says:

    Steve84, the CMS visitation guidelines were already updated on 1/16/11 in response to the President’s memorandum on 4/15/10. The new rules take all of this is into account and are supposed to make it easier for the patient’s wishes to be honored.




    To Lolikei, I agree, despite updated federal hospital visitation rules, this STILL happened. Perfect example of why universal marriage equality is needed now.

  188. wiseoldsnail says:

    me, neither, and it’s happened to me several times

  189. R B says:

    Research Medical Center is part of the HCA Midwest Health System. The do not appear to be a Catholic or otherwise religiously affiliated hospital.



  190. OuyevolituB says:

    Aww…don’t be mad because I called this guy out on his blatant attempt to drum up sympathy by playing the “they kicked me out because I’m gay” card.

  191. wiseoldsnail says:

    we’d just love to see the catholic corporation lose some of it’s tax-exempt for bigotry dollars.

  192. OuyevolituB says:

    Was the guy in this case informed consent? Yes, he was.

    Everything after that is inconsequential to your idiotic argument about the family and/or spouse staying to guide his treatment plan. You obviously don’t have a clue about how medicine and/or the law works.

  193. Police should aim first and foremost for a peaceful resolution, they should not be sticking their knee into someone’s back and karate chopping his arm as a first option. If someone is belligerent in the hospital, draw them away from the scene into a more isolated area. Listen to both sides of the story, not just the one being shouted at them, no matter which side is shouting the louder. If they are disgusted by homosexuals, they should not let this spill over into unequal treatment of LGBT citizens, since everyone may find someone disgusting at some point, yet they are still lawful human beings with constitutionally guaranteed rights to Equal Protection.

    People with no prior record and who are not intentionally criminal should not be so easily turned into criminals through arbitrary violations like “assault police” and “resist arrest”, charges that stay with that person for life, blocking access to employment by the state, the right to stand for public office, and access to most countries on this planet. In the end this can only inflame hatred towards police and disrespect.

    Moreover, overriding rights to visitation should usually be accorded to the spouse of the patient, a bond even closer than that of blood relatives, because that relationship is one actively chosen by both
    parties and it seems recognised by the state in this instance. Even without that, there is the power of attorney, which gives its nominee sweeping powers to act in the nominator’s best interests.

    Unless other facts come to the fore, I see no alternative than for the hospital to issue an apology and overhaul its procedures as regards LGBT partners visiting patients.

  194. Conor McCartney says:

    that is like being arrested for resisting arrest, i’ve never understood that one

  195. swaregirl says:

    Bill, I am SO sorry for the suffering that both you and your partner endured. You would think that hospital professionals would have enough compassion for a sick and/or dying individual, but clearly, that is not always the case. My best friend died of AIDS 13 years ago. His father was the one who moved in with my friend and his lover as they both nursed him until his death. I still reel from the loss and miss him so. As I stand in support of true love from WHEREVER and WHOMEVER you can find it, I try as best I can to honor my dear, late friend. Please know that there are many of us who are heterosexual who believe that regardless of sexual identity or orientation, that all people should be treated with dignity.

  196. R B says:

    When did you make up that it was in a psyc ward? It was the emergency room.

  197. ConnecticutDave says:

    If only they could just toss the AIDS spreading hypocrites off of the roof of the hospital, everyone would could feel better.

  198. ConnecticutDave says:

    They could have done everyone a favor and tossed both of the AIDS carrying hypocrites off the roof.

  199. lorimakesquilts says:

    Then why wasn’t the brother kicked out too? Mr. Gorley wasn’t being disruptive all by himself.

  200. lorimakesquilts says:

    The nurse’s sex life has absolutely no relevance here, stop being a sexist ass.

  201. acornwebworks says:

    Did you bother to read the article??? Only *one* cop wore gloves when removing handcuffs with blood on them…and he handed them to another cop who was *not* wearing gloves and who took the handcuffs with no issue. So don’t proclaim that “gloves and other protect are required”.

    Remember, Jim…these police did not respond to a medical emergency but, rather, to remove someone from the hospital premises. So your fainting experience is utterly irrelevant, as is your claim about *this* situation. So, not, you did *not* cover that issue factually. You merely made assumptions.

    As far as location is concerned? You’re right. But that’s *all* you’ve been right about.

  202. acornwebworks says:

    You do NOT “know” that. You worked hospital security. You were *not* a police officer since that time, nor an EMT. And you retired in Missouri 13 years ago. As a result, you actually have NO CLUE what the police can or cannot do in 2013.

  203. lorimakesquilts says:

    The POA was in his file, she knew them, knew he had a POA.

  204. lorimakesquilts says:

    The POA was in Mr. Mansell’s file, the nurse just couldn’t be bothered to check, or more likely didn’t care since she stated she knew them and had Mr. Mansell as a patient before.

  205. lorimakesquilts says:

    Someone who actually cares about their spouse and has knowledge about his husband that is critical to their care. Someone who knows that the staff is wrong about the situation. Someone who knows the brother is acting to worsen his spouse’s situation. Someone who loves the patient and understands that a husband has the responsibility to do whatever is necessary to ensure his husband gets the best care possible.

    I’d like to think that hospital staff do their absolute best all the time but the reality is they’re human — that makes the care of loving family absolutely essential. I have a vivid memory of my aunt “throwing a fit” when the nurses were late with my granny’s painkillers when she was dying — sometimes it’s necessary.

  206. Mark_in_MN says:

    A disturbance resulting from a homophobic brother trying to keep the partner away and hospital staff telling the husband who has power of attorney on file to leave his spouse instead of the brother who had no right to be involved. Had they respected the relationship of the two men and the power of attorney, there wouldn’t have been any disturbance.

  207. Skeptical Cicada says:

    You’re one of the stupider trolls to come around lately.

  208. Skeptical Cicada says:

    Fundy bigot on a power trip, most likely.

  209. Mark_in_MN says:

    I’m not being a moron. Human beings are social beings. Family and social relationships are important to most of us. Incredibly so. Removing those people can only cause stress for the patient and removes an important part of comfort and healing during a problematic time. (If the patient asks that someone leave, that’s another matter.) Further, when the patient is or could be unable to guide his or her own medical treatment, they need to have their designated decision maker around and able to get full information. Except in the case of a life-threatening emergency or when such a decision maker is truly unavailable, it would be inappropriate, and as far as I’m concerned, unethical for the medical staff to proceed with changes in treatment without consulting patient or decision makers (through being next of kin or the designated person with power of attorney). If those decision makers have been removed because their not being compliant or it’s inconvenient to medical staff to deal with them there is a much bigger problem than some yelling or disruption. Removal of such persons is counterproductive and inappropriate, short of when they are actively causing physical harm.

  210. lorimakesquilts says:

    Bullshit, why weren’t both of the disruptive people removed? Why wasn’t the power of attorney respected? Why weren’t the patient’s wishes regarding visitors respected? This is a big failure on the hospital’s part. None of it would have been an issue if that nurse had followed appropriate procedures and what is no doubt policy at the hospital. I don’t blame Mr. Gorley at all — the nurse was dead wrong, Mr. Mansell’s brother was the one causing the trouble and he did not have the right to be there.

  211. Skeptical Cicada says:

    Troll alert.

  212. Laura Caneer says:

    what projection? it’s true, gloves are practically mandatory equipment. Robert did say that the actions were uncalled for, just that the gloves are a non issue.

  213. acornwebworks says:

    And…if you’d actually read the article, rather than work on your reply while reading, you’d know that the laws have changed since you retired *AND* that the “glove issue” was NOT about healthcare workers at all…so your remarks were irrelevant. Rather, it was about one police officer.

    And your nonsense about “psy patients” is just that…ignorant nonsense. You know no more about psych patients than a clerk in a QuickTrip knows about operating an oil refinery.

    The wrong person was told to leave the room…ordered by someone who had no right to tell him to leave and who, himself, was later told to leave. The person who had no right to order him to leave was also the person doing the yelling.

    It sure sounds like the local police…and, based on what *you* are saying, the hospital security team…need CIT (Crisis Intervention Training) in order to learn how to defuse, rather than escalate, situations like this.

  214. Laura Caneer says:

    the minute the hubby SAID he had power of attorney, the hospital was required by law to at least confirm that and then abide by the POA. They did not do that

  215. Skeptical Cicada says:

    You actually are falling all over yourself to defend the hospital and blame the victims.

    Particularly disgusting is your effort to make up facts and your heaping of equal blame on the bigoted, intruding brother and the legal partner who was being attacked by him.

    The nurse needs to be disciplined severely.

  216. Laura Caneer says:

    If they had listened to him AND the patient, and obeyed the power of attorney, there wouldn’t have been a disturbance to deal with.

  217. lorimakesquilts says:

    Absolutely, but how likely is that? :(

  218. lorimakesquilts says:

    That nurse really really needs to be fired. She knowingly ignored the power of attorney.

  219. Skeptical Cicada says:

    You tell us about your agenda first, asshat.

  220. Skeptical Cicada says:

    We do not have enough facts to draw any firm conclusions about the use of force and the methods employed. Your knee-jerk defense of the police is your projection.

  221. Skeptical Cicada says:

    The hubby is entitled not to like it, as the hubby is the hubby and has a medical power of attorney. The brother isn’t entitled to shove his bigotry down the patient’s throat with the assistance of the nurse.

    I note that the patient asked that his bigoted brother be removed and that the hospital FINALLY asked him to leave.

  222. Stev84 says:

    You clearly haven’t read the daughter’s detailed account which includes the back story. He had been dealing with depression for many years, but had it under control and was highly functioning. The episode only happened because his medication stopped working.

  223. Stev84 says:

    Never mind that your nonsense is totally off topic, it was the brother who was the unruly asshat.

  224. If you are completely believing the hospital’s side of the story then you are a sad person. Over and over I have had to explain to people that this was a failure on the nurse’s part to do her duty to protect the patient’s wishes. If the nurse had done the right thing then this situation would NEVER have happened… So thank you Mr. Troll.

  225. Laura Caneer says:

    there were no suicidal gestures. the brother claimed that in order to get (allen) committed against his will

  226. Cambel says:

    But wait, this COULDN’T happen, because all of the anti-gay bigots keep telling us that things like this can NEVER happen.

  227. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    Why would you assume it’s a Catholic hospital? Do you have some agenda you’d like to tell us about?

  228. Cambel says:

    No, officers are easily fired for breaking laws or policies.

  229. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    A POA does NOT mean you can act like an unruly asshat and not expect hospital security to escort you out.

  230. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    Why is the husband denying that there were any suicidal gestures? Doesn’t the patient have a previous history?
    Sounds like the gay spouse is in denial.

  231. Everything about this story is sad, except the fact that the cops wore gloves. I hope that their training teaches them to wear gloves whenever there is visible blood. Universal precautions are important to help prevent workers from contracting bloodborne illnesses. They should wear gloves even if the blood were present in a case with perceived low risk, such as an 80-year-old woman.

  232. Turd Sandwich says:

    No, it sounds like he was trying to get his brother some psychiatric help – and the hubby didn’t like that too much.

  233. Turd Sandwich says:

    Look at all the fake, bullshit, handringing over this.
    Turns out the hospital didn’t kick him out because he was gay, but because he couldn’t control himself and became a disturbance.

  234. They appear to be a corporate health system.

  235. Brawny71 says:

    It’s very obvious what happened here. Some homophobic relative never did accept this man, pulled their usual crap, and a homophobic employee sided with that person.

  236. Robert says:

    Police officers are trained to wear gloves in hospitals. That part of the personal account is projection. What happened is absolutely ridiculous and uncalled for, but whether or not an officer was following his safety training–for patients, suspects, and officers–has no bearing on it.

  237. Rose says:

    Your ignorance here is overwhelming.

  238. Stev84 says:

    He was depressed. Not crazy. So there is no reason to assume that he couldn’t make reasoned decisions.

  239. Stev84 says:

    Yeah, but really it shouldn’t take you being married to someone to visit them in the hospital or even make decisions for them. Sure, it’s an easy shortcut, but not everyone can or wants to get married. If POAs were properly implemented, this wouldn’t be so much of an issue. It should also be possible to become someone’s legal next of kin without being married to them.

    This affects some straight people too. There is a reason why some states allow older people of the opposite sex to enter into Domestic Partnerships. It’s not necessarily for couples, but for roommates who have no relatives nearby and support each other. Or why shouldn’t someone be able to designate their best friend as caretaker in emergencies if they have no one else?

  240. Stev84 says:

    And yet, apparently only one the police officers was that paranoid. The other didn’t care as much.

  241. 2patricius2 says:

    Does the spouse of an opposite sex partner need to have marriage certificates in hand in such a situation? I think not.

  242. The only surprise here is that this didn’t happen in Texas!

  243. 2patricius2 says:

    I am mostly a quiet person, but I know I would throw a fit in a situation like that.

  244. Brad says:

    The hospital needs to be fined for not complying with the law. And the individual needs to sue the hospital for damages. This is intolerable.

  245. Stev84 says:

    Yet in practice, straight people rarely have to show documents in hospitals. You could probably get to visit any random woman by claiming to be her husband. And note that no one asked the brother for any proof of their relation. Yet he was able to be there and make decisions.

  246. Ryan says:

    My understanding is that they can acknowledge the existence and content of a news story.

  247. 2patricius2 says:

    “It appears the patient was in the hospital as a psy patient. Not sure that you can listen to what a psy patient is telling you about anything.”
    Jim, I worked as a clinical social worker for over 30 years. I worked with quite a few patients dealing with serious mental illness. I have had close friends who have had mental illness. I took very seriously what patients had to say, because despite their illness, they were usually quite capable of determining who they wanted to be with them. I have seen too many instances of people disregarding the wishes of patients dealing with mental illness, simply because they were ill. Unless there is evidence of their having been physically harmed by the person they want with them, their wishes should be taken quite seriously. And certainly if the person they want with them has medical power of attorney and is known to the staff person as having that power, or if the person they want is known to be the patient’s life partner, there should be no question of whether they should be allowed to stay.

  248. UncleBucky says:

    I am trying find this out, too. So the “brother” was the one who started out passive aggressive and moved to intimidation and obscenities? Well, naturally, the one EASIER to remove from the fracas will be removed, namely the person who is perceived less likely to fight, or then does finally fight back after trying to be reasonable. {/snark}

    It’s bullying on corporate level. Where company reps feel they have the right to be discriminatory, that’s worse than schoolyard bullies who fly under the radar. Corporate bullies fly with the radar to do their stuff thinking that “legal”, “protocol”, and “following orders” justifies their actions alone.


  249. cambridgemac says:

    Boy does this bring back memories. In Boston in 1984 volunteers from the AIDS Action Committee went into hospitals (famous hospitals) to shame the staff who were wearing gloves and sliding FOOD TRAYS ON THE FLOOR to patients – by hugging them in front of staff…

  250. Sweetie says:

    On a lighter note:

    “Daughter says hospital singled out her father, and police assumed her father had AIDS because he was gay.”

    Does this mean reparative therapy works?

  251. UncleBucky says:

    “thew a fit” You fight for your kids, your spouse, your husband, your wife, your Mom, your Dad, your grandparents or anyone else you love or have as relative, neighbor, or companion, you often HAVE TO THROW A FIT.

    A-hem! To FIGHT for them sometimes require reading the riot act to functionaries and workers who do only enough to keep jobs and be “legal”. Why always this running to what’s “legal” when the issue is what is “ethical”, “moral” and “humane”?

    What kind of person? Not a corporate person. A human person. Even a dog person who protects their alpha pack member.

  252. UncleBucky says:

    Any time laconic, emotionless corporate beings encounter normally emotioned human beings they blame the victim. This even includes international emotional reactions to oppression, such as peoples oppressed because of their ethnic background, women who protest being treated as possessions or objects, and now those of us who have rights but are denied them by bigots. When we object to bad treatment to these corporate types, and don’t “take it”, it is WE who have the “attitude problem”. I am sick of it. There needs to be a rallying cry if one doesn’t already exist “Tired of Being Blamed While Victim” or maybe “Driving While Blamed as Victim” or something like that. It’s not quite the same as being bullied, although it shares a lot of aspects. Bullying can be done by individuals who operate under the radar. Blamed as Victim is done by corporate beings (Corp reps, TSA, Police, elected officials and so on).

    Yeah, buddy…!

  253. Stev84 says:

    All part of the typical American “let’s kill him first and sort out the problem later” mentality.

  254. Hue-Man says:

    As human beings, nurses too have bad days but this is exactly the time that supervision, management, systems and training avoid disastrous situations like this. That this story has made global news, shows how ineffective these controls were working, and from all indications continue to fail to operate. If they fail in what should be a straightforward case, it suggests that controls are failing throughout the world’s most perfect health-care system. USA USA USA.

  255. AFV says:

    Cha-Ching! Sue them heartless animals. They’ll learn to keep their religion tucked in their pants.

  256. Tindajii says:

    Oh, so first hand witness accounts of a situation are no longer valid because “Rob Kennedy” thinks they might embellish? Fair enough! Case closed!

    What an incredible douche you are.

  257. Tindajii says:

    I’ll bet you voted for Michele Bachmann, didn’t you? Come on.. you can admit it.

  258. Berkleyguy says:

    This is reprehensible at best. I do hope the ACLU becomes involved and the hospital is held accountable. In these situations, I would make sure I had multiple copies of the medical power of attorney and I would take a copy and give it to the nurse in charge every time my partner was hospitalized regardless of whether they had it on record or in my partner’s file or not.

  259. Tindajii says:

    I feel so incredibly sorry for everyone you were making “secure” by your employment. If you would have done the same thing as a “Security and Safety Officer” in this situation I can’t imagine how you kept your job for so long. Are you sure you would not have made the other less-than-gentleman leave for being disruptive first? Are you sure you would not have listened to the patient’s request?

    You are an incredibly biased and bigoted douche. I hope when you are in the hospital relying on medicare the same thing happens to you, so that maybe, just maybe, you will see how wrong you are.

  260. Sophia says:

    I’m so sorry for what you’ve gone through Billy. I know what it feels like.

  261. lymis says:

    “What kind of person behaves in this manner?”

    Maybe someone whose husband is in the middle of a complicated series of medical treatments, has medical power of attorney, and understands his husband’s care, and had his husband forcibly hospitalized against his will by his husband’s visiting homophobic brother, and then when his husband’s brother starts screaming obscenities at him in the hospital room, the nurse tells HIM he has to leave because he’s the disruptive one?

  262. 91104 says:

    You’re an idiot. What happened was wrong. Period. Go back to your security job, because you’ve obviously been brainwashed…

  263. lisbeth borden says:

    YES, psychiatric patients DO get their choice of visitors, too. Even (restrained) homicidal patients would get a visitor in most cases.
    I love how you ADMIT you know nothing about these regs, then spew forth a novel how we should ‘all calm down’. YOU don’t know SH|t buddy. Better to keep your mouth shut than show us you’re a VERBOSE idiot.

  264. HeartlandLiberal says:

    John, excellent job of reporting. The more I read of this incident, the more I am stunned at the complete wrongheaded stupidity of the nurse and the hospital administration. The man had signed power of attorney. He had been there before. There can be absolutely no explanation of hospital staff behavior other than sheer, blind bigotry towards gays. I sincerely hope Amanda’s father files a lawsuit against the hospital, and takes them to the cleaners.

  265. Jim Howard says:

    You are not to smart are you? You would be arrested and found guilty. Hitting a police officer is a felony. Even if you were correct and the police were wrong… You would be found guilty.
    I was a hospital security officer for 30 years. I arrested a lot of people. I had to fight many of those. I only lost one court case. I had arrested a guy for trespassing. The police officer wrote it up as disorderly conduct and I failed to check before I went to court on the case. So he was found not guilty. (He was an exhibitionist however but I knew I could not make that case.)

  266. Jim Howard says:

    Excellent post.
    I have seen how much work it is when a nurse gets a patient. It takes a long time and a lot of work to do everything to get a new patient admitted to the unit.
    Again.. excellent post.
    I am sure the hospital will reassess procedures. I have been part of a couple of groups that did that after a hospital an event.
    I worked for RMC for 18 years.
    One I would think they would not apologize because of legal action that I am sure is going to come their way.

    But on the other hand I was at a security department meeting one time and we had an employee show up that was a “patient advocate” and she told how her department handled complains. I could not believe it. She said they contacted the people .. I forget what all they did.. Send flowers and candy and kissed their asses. I was surprised and shocked. I let her and everyone else know in the meeting that I felt it was an error to do that.

  267. Jim Howard says:

    Thy police and EMS will show up and check the patient. They are not going to take the word of someone. Not even family. They will ask the person questions.
    Some mental patients, I am sorry to say, know what to say.. “I am not going to hurt anyone else” and “I do not want to hurt myself.” They get a free pass and family members have to deal with someone that is punching holes in the walls and breaking things.

  268. Jim Howard says:

    You are 100% correct. I have done it many times. I had one guy that was in the ICU room with his brother and the guy was drunk and shaking his brother and yelling at him “Do not die.” I had to remove him from the hospital.
    Hospital have rules and they are enforced. Not so much visiting hours anymore. When I started working hospital security in 1972 at a Catholic hospital when visiting hours ended I had to go to each room and remove all visitors. Very rare for a visitor to be allowed to stay.
    Some hospitals have rules on the number of visitors in a room.
    People are under so much stress when they have loved ones in a hospital.
    Nursing staff and others try to handle things as best they can …
    Sounds like, in this case, the patient and the visitors were the problem.

  269. OuyevolituB says:

    Hardly. The fact that this all went down in a psych ward is even more disturbing.

    A disruptive family should have not even been near the patient until calmer minds prevailed. Do you think all of this stress is good for the patient?

  270. OuyevolituB says:

    What? This is about the patient. If the family members are causing a disturbance then they need to leave. Fuck what they want. I bet family members would want to observe surgeries too. That doesn’t mean we let them.

    Don’t be a moron.

  271. OuyevolituB says:

    Yes, that is what the daughter claims. The patient isn’t on the record anywhere – like you claim.

    I guess you don’t know the difference between those two things. Try harder.

  272. Jim Howard says:

    Now come on…How can you say the for profit HCA is a rotten corporation. Smile
    True they were found guilty of stealing millions and millions from tax payers.
    True they admitted to it and had to train all employees on how to report Medicare fraud.
    True their CEO had to resign as head of the corporation.
    But how could it be a rotten corporation that committed crimes because he was elected Republican Gov. of FL.
    People in FL would not have elected someone like that would they?

  273. Jim Howard says:

    I worked hospital security for 30 years in Missouri. As far as I know there was no law like that on the books. Sure people did end up being involuntarily held. But it was not easy.
    I retired in 2000 and moved to FL. Then after a few months I decided to work contact security to make a few extra dollars. The company I went to work for had a hospital contact and they were so happy to have me apply. I did not want the job but they put me in charge of the hospital contact.
    I was on the job for awhile and I got called to the ER to watch a patient. They said he was a “Baker Act” patient. I had never heard of it. It is what they call your 5150 law in FL. Any police officer can “Baker Act” anyone that he believes needs to be checked.
    What I found very upsetting was this guy I was watching seemed just fine to me. He wanted to get to work the next day and he seemed OK. I talked to the ER doctor for the patient and the ER doctor agreed with me but he said he had no choice that he had to send him on to a psy hospital for 72 hours.

  274. Rob Montague says:

    The story is all over the Internet and on newspaper sites all around the country.

  275. sister sharon says:

    The hospital’s ass in the vise now. It’s on !

  276. Jim Howard says:

    I know sort of unfair to pick the location as an error.
    But the big point made of gloves. I covered that in my post.
    All hospital workers are required to use gloves. Police and Security carry gloves with them at all times and use them.
    I am a 72 year old male. Back about two years ago I fainted. I was at a store. They called 911. My heart rate had gone to 25! I ended up with a pacemaker.
    But back to the point…The firemen that showed up put on gloves before they checked me.
    Gloves and other protect are required.
    All hospital employees, including security, are required to get training each year on using gloves and other protection. That is for the protection of employee AND the patient.

  277. tsuki says:

    I looked it up. It said HCA Health System.

  278. Jim Howard says:

    Easy Research Medical Center is NOT in Lee’s Summit MO
    RMC is in Kansas City, MO.

  279. BeccaM says:

    Then please present a single refuting fact. Just one factually sourced reason.

  280. Jim Howard says:

    When police and EMS showed up because of the brother’s call they would NOT just have taken the guy to the hospital on the brother’s word. Many mothers and fathers can tell you that and other family members. The police and EMS would have talked to the patient and asked him questions. Then based on what the patient said they would have decided to take him to the hospital.
    I suspect the the patient must have said.. yes I want to kill myself or something to the effect or the police and EMS would have left.
    I have seen people so crazy they crazy by any standards. The EMS asked them are you going to hurt anyone else or are you going to hurt yourself. The patient says “NO” and the EMS says sorry nothing we can do and they leave.

  281. Jim Howard says:

    Sorry I have been reading AmericaBlog for years. I think this story is the most un-professional story and should not be called “journalism.”
    Very poor reporting.
    I worked hospital security for 30 years in the Kansas City area. I worked 18 years for Research Medical Center. I was a police officer and an EMT.
    If I were AmericaBlog, this story is so wrong, I would pull the entire story. Re write it correct or just admit this case is not the one you want to fight for rights with at this time.

  282. D.g. Gass says:

    You’re serious, right? They may have many lines, but they’re not unlimited, nor are they unlimited in the staff that it takes to answer and direct those calls. When was the last time that you’ve tried to call a hospital and had to wait for a response? That’s on a normal day when they’re not getting an influx of calls expressing outrage. So yes, it can interfere with the patients.

  283. Jim Howard says:

    I worked as a Security and Safety officer for 18 years for Research Medical Center. I retired in 2000. (RMC is in Kansas City, MO not Lee’s Summit by the way. But I also worked at LSH.)
    This AmericaBlog story is 100% wrong on so many points that I can not even counter them all. The story is wrong and the points they make are wrong. What they say is legal is wrong. What the hospital did sounds correct if all the facts were known.
    I can understand that some people are not going to be upset over the way this story is presented but the story is not being presented clearly.
    Like I said I do not know where to start.
    It appears the patient was in the hospital as a psy patient. Not sure that you can listen to what a psy patient is telling you about anything. Sorry to have to say that.
    Also it is crazy to think that you can be “disruptive and belligerent” no matter what. You never are in the right. If the police are doing something wrong there is a time and a place to deal with that. But you do not fight and resist the police. The court might find that the police were wrong but you will be found guilty of crimes by your actions.
    A big deal is made of the use of gloves. It is required by all hospitals. It is required by federal law. In fact all health care workers are required each year to get training. Even a small amount of blood from anyone is to be treated as by universal precautions. In fact it is any bodily fluids. The way this guy was fighting I would not be surprised if he was not spitting also.

    If the hospital or any of the employees gave information on a patient and they should not have done so then federal HIPAA rules would come into effect. Hospitals are scared to death of those federal laws. Just a simple error could result in the federal government stopping all Medicare and Medicaid payments to the hospital. The hospital would be closed up and shut down in a month or two.

    I worked hospital security for 30 years from 1972 to 2000.
    I think AmericaBlog has picked the wrong story and case. Also you have picked the wrong victim. Do not pick a victim that was belligerent. Do not pick a victim that had to be handcuffed and dragged away from a mental patient. Do not pick as a victim someone that would not listen to request from nursing staff to please leave the room. You trying to make someone into a hero that was holding on to the bed of the patient in a hospital room and from the story it appears a patient that was in for mental problems.

    Everyone here on AmericaBlog needs to back off this.. This is not the case you want to use for gay rights.
    This story and the people in the story are not going to turn out to be the good guys you need to advance your cause.

  284. WTF! I will kick the brother’s ass. Why the hospital is so f’ked? I am gay. My partner and I have been together for 8 years. I will be mad as hell if they kick my boyfriend out of the room. Legalize gay marriage, NOW!

  285. Lolikei says:

    This is a good example of why gay marriage needs to be legalized, with all the rights and privileges that go with it. “Partner” status is not equal. It’s none of the hospital’s business who the patient wants to have with them. And in this case the patient was even conscious and articulate! Imagine how the average hospital would react if the hospitalized patient were unconscious!

  286. Off the Pigs.

  287. Oh I hope they sue for really really big bucks and get it. Is it a Catholic hospital?

  288. mirror says:

    This is probably the most fitting comment to end my progress through this thread. Thanks.

  289. mirror says:

    Mercury613 is kidding, right? Or did he threaten to cancel his paid subscription?

  290. mirror says:

    Notice how you see it as right that the brother be given automatic deference and authority (and want us all to agree “for gods sake), but the partner must at all times carry papers because you see it as expected that he will not be given deference or authority.

  291. Mike D. says:

    America is always behind, socially speaking. And despite some recent advances, still falling behinder overall.

  292. Mike D. says:

    Why do yout think she’s a “possible slut”? Please crawl back under your rock.

  293. mirror says:

    Oh, snap!

  294. Mike D. says:

    Well said. As an RN, I think the most prudent thing to do when all parties escalate is to clear ALL of them out. I have my job to do and the patient to take care of. I’ve even put warring parties in separate waiting rooms and alternated the groups during visiting hours in ICU.

  295. Mike D. says:

    I thnk you’re a little off. If something leaked to the media, hospital staff still are obligated by HIPAA to keep their yaps shut. It’s irrelevant if something leaked!

  296. mirror says:

    OuyevolituB: You are obviously strongly biased against people with mental illness and this makes you especially unqualified to give opinions about these events.

    It is very common for psychiatric wards to have some staff who think the non-conventional family and friends do not deserve the same respect as others. The more details that come to light the less surprising I find the nature of the dehumanizing discrimination this couple suffered.

  297. Mike D. says:

    It really depends. The physician in the ED examines the patient and will generally also speak with anyone who has come with the patient for added perspective. If a patient is depressed and making low-risk threats (in the doctor’s opinion) and is not actively suicidal AND has someone who will take responsibility for watching over the patient after discharge, the patient is often discharged to that person’s care. Psych (and alleged psych) cases are a very nuanced presentation. . .there aren’t any cut and dried rules. The physician also looks at whether or not it’s probable that the patient can be placed in a proper environment of care after the ED (transferred). A lot of locales have virtually no inpatient psych services, especially if you are minimally insured or uninsured.

  298. mirror says:

    That would explain how he would know how to work the system and the type of wording to use to provoke a response like this to get an involuntary mental health commitment.

  299. mirror says:

    You are totally ignorant about how any of this works, troll.

    For the non-trolls with less experience: someone with a history of psychiatric problems is easy to get committed on a 72 hour hold for suicidal ideation, especially if they aren’t able to articulate their mental state well, as here. I saw it a bunch of times. Even good mental health professionals can fall in love with the power to ignore your civil rights for 72 hours in the interest of what they think is “better safe than sorry.” Once he’s in I’ll bet they got interested “helping” him get back on track with his treatment regime. From the facts presented here and the likely witnesses, I can’t see them winning a judicial hearing to hold him for more time, even assuming he is still on an involuntary status. “Danger to self” 72 hour holds generally play out very differently than other kinds of mental health commitments.

  300. mirror says:

    Often the only way to get someone with any authority or first hand knowledge to talk with you is to freak out the front line staff by having a nervous break down or faking one. Learned this trying to get my financial aid released after a 5 week delay when I was a junior in college and haven’t forgotten it in the next 25 years.

  301. Mark_in_MN says:

    That shouldn’t be. But that it happens says more about the improper and in appropriate assumptions of power unfortunately still quite visible in health care today.

  302. PeteWa says:

    yes, I still KNOW that you’re the one who didn’t read the article.
    “Interestingly, later the hospital also asked Lee, the man who was
    fighting with Roger, to leave as well. Why? Because it was Allen, the
    hospital patient, who asked for Lee to leave.”

    you fail. try harder.

  303. Justin Evans says:

    sue the shit out of that hospital, breach of power of attorney and excessive force.

  304. Mark_in_MN says:

    Why any medical facility is still using paper is beyond me, especially when the deadline before Medicare payment penalties kick in is now less than 2 years away. Not having them now is probably going to mean a real challenge for some facilities to get to where they need to be.

  305. Mike D. says:

    Where is it? I can’t find any Facebook page.

  306. Chastity Pariah says:

    You wanna back that assertion up with some facts, or are you just blowing it all out of your ass?

  307. R B says:

    “I know learning to read and getting info is hard. But keep it up buddy – it’ll get easier with practice.

    Sadly, it hasn’t seemed to work for you.

  308. Mike D. says:

    Why am I not surprised that this happened at an HCA facility?

  309. Mike D. says:

    Cops deal with HIV+ people on a daily basis. “Not engage”-ing is not one of their options.

  310. OuyevolituB says:

    Wow. You are fucking retarded. The husband is the one who mentioned to the press that the patient had previous admissions to the psych ward at the hospital.

    You don’t know what HIPAA is, do you? Look, I know learning to read and getting info is hard. But keep it up buddy – it’ll get easier with practice.

  311. Mike D. says:

    If what you’re saying is true, you have just violated HIPAA big time and that can get you fired and more.

  312. spectrewriter says:

    Billy, when my BFF, Gil Johnson, was at the USC facility (among the very first AZT patients) it was very much the same. As you said, something out of The Shining… everyone wearing masks and paper suits, frightened of contracting AIDS. I remember Gil, who was a very tough and Rugged Individualist martial artist, world-traveled… his eyes welled up with tears. I asked what it was, what was wrong, and he sobbed “nobody touches me.” I was furious, but back then even medical staff were ignorant, afraid. When he died, it took 2 weeks for him to be cremated, because there was only one place in L.A. that would even do a cremation on a PWA (Person With AIDS). That was 30 years ago.. and I had hoped, thought, dreamed… that it would be different now. Even as gay Marines are being accepted by their unit, along comes a story like this.
    I know how emotional this is for you, how much pain it has brought back up, because I’m feeling it all over again myself just now. Forgiveness seems to help, even if it never quite goes away.
    As Melissa wrote in Scarecrow, “I can forgive… but I will never forget!”

  313. People under stress react in abnormal ways. It’s really as simple as that. He just wanted to be with his spouse, and instead was forcibly removed due to discrimination. Yeah, I think it’s a pretty normal response under the circumstances.

    It doesn’t say anywhere that this is his normal behaviour, just that he responded this way to an extreme and unjust display of discrimination that separated him from his husband.

  314. Tuesday Wang says:

    Isn’t there anything else that can be done for this story to get momentum and publicity – so that the hospital has no choice but to step out and issue an apology?

  315. mason says:

    What a difficult time that must have been for you. Hopefully people around us, who know our stories will be our supporters for marriage equality.

  316. R B says:

    …”to make matters even more humiliating he didn’t want his handcuffs back. He grabbed them with gloves on, then another layer of gloves pinched between his index finger and thumb as he handed them off to another officer. The officer taking the handcuffs looked at him like he was crazy and just grabbed the handcuffs with no issue.”


  317. Mike D. says:

    Too much being made of the gloves. That’s a Federally-mandated (OSHA) universal precaution against bloodborn pathogens. You don’t wear gloves around the blood and bodily fluids of a person because you think they’re gay—you wear them around EVERYONE. And I’m speaking as a gay nurse. Did the officer have to act with disdain? No. But the witness is understandably prejudiced.

  318. One of the most bizarre laws still on the books is that pretty much *anyone* can report you as suicidal or dangerous to yourself or others and you can be involuntarily held for psychiatric evaluation- in my state, California, this is known as being 5150’d and it’s a minimum 72 hour hold. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5150_(Involuntary_psychiatric_hold)

  319. Poiq says:

    Har, another typo. ^^^. (it)

  320. R B says:

    Uganda, North Korea, Russia….

  321. SadWorldWorld says:

    If the cops were worried about AIDS, they would not have engaged. It makes no sense.

  322. Strepsi says:

    1. They had been to the hospital “many times” so the Power of Attorney would be on file. 2. Ask any straight married couple if they have to prove anything, ever. THIS is why Federally mandated civil marriage equality for all states is the only answer. 3. This story has me so mad, because ANY gay man my age knows of someone whose biological family has swooped in as “next of kin” and superceded the REAL family, the partner. And usually this loving “family” is the same horrible family that disowned/abused/kicked out their fa**ot son to begin with!

  323. R B says:

    Listen you dumb fuck, I could be FOREST FUCKING GUMP and I would still continue to trump you in this discussion so shut the fuck up. As if employment in the cafeteria qualifies you to speak on this issue.

    I see no need to argue with someone as ignorant as you. You are dismissed Jello chef.

  324. Strepsi says:

    Go watch “Terms of Endearment” and get back to me.

  325. OuyevolituB says:

    I work in the cafeteria where I serve up a daily serving of whoopass to morons like you.

    And I’m an Atheist. Why would I have a pastor or give a flying fuck what god thinks.

    You’re just to stupid to realize that this guy was admitted for being suicidal and his husband didn’t like that very much. Too fucking bad. It sounds like the patient had a history of previous admissions to the psych ward. I wonder why.

  326. This just makes me sad. So very sad this is the world or the country we live in. Where else in the world would this had been tolerated?

  327. George Melby says:

    VERY well put! OuyevolituB probably doesn’t fit in anywhere with anybody in this world. He’s very lonesome… by his own actions! Pity him!

  328. RCChicago says:

    Thank you for positing the contact info!

  329. R B says:

    Seriously, you’re either a shill or a troll or both. And I don’t use those terms lightly. You’re probably the Nurse Ratched who escalated this with her knickers in a twist because your dumb ass pastor told you God Hates Fags or the “family” member who started all this. Either way, your village is calling, so go away.

  330. BloggerDave says:

    Great job, John. Thank you for bringing us this story. The call has been heard coast to coast and we will respond accordingly…

  331. Um…a person who was being denied access to their spouse? I know I would throw a fit if the hospital refused to let me see my husband – especially knowing that my husband wanted to see me.

  332. George Melby says:

    And the Police Farces wonder why the public doesn’t respect them any more! One can only wonder… will ceases never wonder? ;-)

  333. George Melby says:

    Outed as what? The possible slut that she might be? Just MHO!

  334. R B says:

    Ironic, isn’t it? The hospital says he was removed for being belligerent but then goes on to say his belligerent behavior consists of his resisting being removed.

  335. Mark_in_MN says:

    “Ideally, security or police should have cleared the room and taken husband and brother to a neutral location where they could calm down, while nurse calmed patient and assessed him.” No. Ideally, the room would have been cleared of everyone but patient, medical practitioner, and spouse.

    And as far as access to the Power of Attorney, it should have been in the electronic medical record at that hospital (and any hospital that size has one now), with easy and instant access. If she hadn’t looked at the record before dealing with or when starting to deal with the patient, there is another highly problematic situation that needs to be rectified with her. It should have taken her only a few seconds to look it up. Getting some facts before acting is always good. It’s a basic part of any medical profession. That doesn’t go out the door because things get a bit think and heated.

    But on your last paragraph, I couldn’t agree more. I’m just unwilling to make excuses or accept exclamations for medical personnel on a power trip thinking that they must be in control rather than respect the patient and/or his designated decision maker and their fundamental right to be in control of their own situation and care.

  336. George Melby says:

    What can you expect from right-wing social conservatives? By all means, post his e-mail address! I’m sure my hundreds of friends will be happy to let Lee know what kind of mongrel he is!

  337. OuyevolituB says:

    You only think it’s a lie because it doesn’t fit your dumbfuck political agenda.

  338. George Melby says:

    Well, well… the ‘cops’ have shown their bright side again. Who would have suspected?

  339. George Melby says:

    You’re not “THE” Victor that still works at RMC-Menorah, are you? ROFLMBO! If so, you’re just another chaplain under the duress of RMC-HRC claws of vengeance against the GLBT Community! Your word means…NOTHING!

  340. R B says:

    Why don’t you try posting links to other sources since you are so informed? Being reported as suicidal and attempting suicide are two entirely different things. While we are on the subject, why are you even here? Are you a shill for the hospital or the family member who caused all of this or just a bigot or homophobe or all of the above?

  341. George Melby says:

    Always apologize, always apologize… and get the sh*t sued out of them or at the very least, close its doors!
    Dakotahgeo, M.Div. Pastor/Chaplain (see, Mr./Pastor Green? I sign my name just like you taught me at RMC hospitals! (DORK!)

  342. R B says:

    I’m so sorry that you had to go through this. I’m thankful every day that the family of my partner of 19 years treats us like family. My family, not so much. Thus we have a sheaf of documents to protect his rights in the event of my demise (and the same for mine).

  343. OuyevolituB says:

    It’s been widely reported as a suicide attempt – a claim that hasn’t been disputed by the family. Try reading other sources.

  344. George Melby says:

    So you were also a worker there… you know firsthand what a sh*t organization the place is! I wonder when more disenfranchised former employees will come out of the woodwork!!! This is just one disgusting organization, top to bottom!

  345. Rob Kennedy says:

    Yeah, because she wouldn’t embellish the story to raise the profile of the issue. That would just be silly.

  346. George Melby says:

    I can only hope the wronged family, with the help of the ACLU, sues the shit out of the hospital AND the KCMO Police Department! Why, oh why, do these prejudiced, bigoted people always have to learn through a Court lawsuit and tons of money being exchanged before they get the message. RMC is removing negative comments from their Facebook page? How quaint! Try to remove THIS:
    [email protected]
    I worked for the bastards at RMC! (it was a long time coming, wasn’t it, James and Charles?!

  347. ecr says:

    Billy, I am incredibly sorry.

    (And this story, now, in the 21st century, makes me incredibly angry.)

  348. Conor McCartney says:

    So the part about the hospital claiming that the man was beligerant being refuted with the fact that he got into a shouting match with the brother isn’t really clarifying things.

  349. OuyevolituB says:

    Young lady. Fuck off.

  350. HeadSquarelyBetweenShoulders says:

    The discussion was that they should’ve done so, not that they did. I think you misunderstood. Regardless, the hospital staff must have their heads planted firmly up their asses if they honestly believe there won’t be hell to pay for this incident. For that matter, I expect the cops involved in taking Roger away from his husband will be hearing more about this as well.

  351. d3clark says:

    RMC’s had several thousand hits on its Facebook page. I couldn’t find ANY supporting the hospital. And RMC is removing any unflattering comments. Also George Takei posted it on his Facebook page.

  352. R B says:

    YES. It was mentioned and allegedly the same nurse treated them on previous occasions enough to know who they were and YES it is their job.

  353. d3clark says:

    Research Medical Center has the lie posted on its website: http://researchmedicalcenter.com/about/newsroom/detail.dot?id=d5c53152-2ed8-4d90-9ea4-0c49827f7262

  354. R B says:

    Roger, respectfully you are wrong. I live in VA too and I we both know what’s it’s like here. Yes my partner and I have these docs with us when we travel and on file here with the local health system and our providers. However, CMS updated the hospital visitation guidelines in Jan of 2011 following Obama’s memorandum on the subject in April of 2010. This affects all hospitals nationwide that accept federal Medicaid and/or Medicare funding as well as all patients, not just those covered by Medicaid or Medicare.

    All that is required under the new CMS rules is for a patient who is not incapacitated to give verbal consent and chose his support persons, according to his wishes. The hospital is required to go over this at the time of admittance. The hospital can not ask for written proof unless the patient is incapacitated AND there is a dispute between the support persons as who should have authority. It sounds like this issue was somewhere between these two variables and as such, the nurse or staff should have used due diligence to check for the existence of a previously filed AD or POA, especially once they were informed of its existence.

    Furthermore, once the AD / POA has been executed it’s legally in force until revoked by the patient or another AD/POA with a subsequent executed date is presented. The hospital knows this and it’s their business to train their staff about these lawful requirements and yes it is also the hospital’s responsibility to maintain their records once it’s been given to them. They just don’t throw this stuff out after you leave. In fact, the hospital’s central records should have reflected a notation right there on the admitting screen that a AD/POA was on file and should have listed the name of the designee. The staff should also have access through their central records system to the scanned electronic copy of the archived paper copy.

    The hospital was clearly wrong on several fronts including violating CMS, HIPPA and other rules. The issue may have been escalated by Roger getting upset, but he should have been taken to another room to cool down and sort it out. If there was any question, he could have been provided with a fill in the blank AD or POA that every hospital patient advocacy person has access to and he and Allen could have executed one right then and there. Again, this is part of the hospital’s job during admittance to go over these things or accommodate a request for the same. It’s certainly not Roger’s fault because he didn’t have a legal document on him during what appeared to be surprise attack by some misguided family member.

  355. Terri Hemker says:

    Actually the hospital SHOULD have that paperwork already in their files if they have treated this patient before. I know my hospital already has my durable power of attorney and advance directive already in their files from previous treatments. All the nurse should have had to do is look it up and there should have been no need for them to arrive with the papers in hand although that would have been wise but perhaps not possible if they were packing for a vacation and rudely interrupted.

  356. Fadiekay says:

    Here’s the thing, I don’t think this would happen to me even though I don’t even have a civil partnership with my partner. I don’t think it would happen because we don’t happen to be the same sex. And that is just crazy as we are both bi-sexual and could have settled with a persons of the same sex instead of the way it worked out. We fell in love with each other as people and didn’t much care about what set of genitals the other had. I don’t understand why, in this day and age, what genitals my partner has should matter to anyone but me.

  357. “Threw a fit”?? What kind of person behaves in this manner?

  358. Terri Hemker says:

    Most hospitals who regularly treat a patient already have their durable medical power of attorney and advanced directive on file with their medical records. I know my hospital has mine. All the nurse would have had to do is look it up.

  359. Chip Council says:

    Yeah but I understand his brother is a cop or at least trained with them. I saw that on his facebook page.

  360. Judy Bishop says:

    The relative does not have the authority to demand anything. Again, read or google HRC/HEI and you will find out what the law is. HCA/RHMC are in big trouble! They should be.

  361. Chip Council says:

    My heart goes out to you Mason. I lived through the same thing and finally got my husbands ashes in a cardboard box when they finally decided his will didn’t violate the states constitutional ban on relationship recognition. That was three months later.

  362. Judy Bishop says:

    They were wrong, especially HCA/RMHC. Apology is not enough!!

  363. Judy Bishop says:

    Joe, these are not the kind of things nurses loose their license for. That is something we have been told forever, but it’s just not true. Look up reasons for loosing your license.

  364. Judy Bishop says:

    I hope to Hell they do. This is actually as much RHMC’s/HCA fault as the nurses.

  365. d3clark says:

    The report doesn’t say that the patient tried to commit suicide. It says that his brother claimed that Roger was suicidal.

  366. Mason says:

    When my boyfriend died, he and I had been living together for 4 years, sharing rent and expenses, marriage was never a legal option for us. Until you’ve experienced it, you have no idea how strange it is having people rummage through your belonging, letting you know what they are taking (sometimes), taking what they want other times, and they actually have a legal right to do so. We urgently need marriage equality in this country.

  367. Judy Bishop says:

    Young man there are many lines. This will not interfere with the patients at all. Please know what you are talking about before you post!

  368. Judy Bishop says:

    All of you on this site/story, please email him. It’s so important! HCA is a rotten corporation. Unfortunately, for him, he is part of it. If you want further information google HRC/HEI, and see what the rules are.

  369. qt314 says:

    He was being facetious, you dumb fuck.

  370. Judy Bishop says:

    Great story! thanks I hope people pay attention. One would think that by now we would be smarter…NOT. Just more stupid.

  371. d3clark says:

    Just a thought. The patient was just admitted. The nurse probably had very little info about his condition. The patient was reported to be going in and out of consciousness. The nurse needs to get to the patient quickly, assess him, get vitals, call doctor, etc. Her first responsibility was for the safety of the patient. She needed to talk with and examine him. Almost impossible with two, or more, family members shrieking. And they were further upsetting the patient. Nurse needed to either get everyone quieted down (virtually impossible) or get them out of the room so she could do what she needed to do. When she couldn’t defuse the situation, she called security and/or the police. Ideally, security or police should have cleared the room and taken husband and brother to a neutral location where they could calm down, while nurse calmed patient and assessed him. Ideally. Unfortunately, this quickly deteriorated into a pitched battle.

    Nurse supposedly knew the patient. Even if true, she may not have any memory of a power of attorney being signed. Copy of POA may have been in old chart, but she probably didn’t have access to it and would certainly not search for it while this screaming match was going on.

    This all could have been handled much, much better. Some blame lies with brother and husband. They needed to chill so patient could get treated. Supposedly, every one there should have had the patient’s best interests at heart. Apparently, that was not the case.

    I’m certainly not defending everything that happened here. I’m just trying to add a little perspective. I’ve worked in medicine my whole adult life. I’ve been in situations like this where fistfights got started, weapons were pulled, shots fired, patients/staff/visitors injured. Ultimately, the patient is safe, if upset, and getting treated. That’s the primary goal. The other things that happened were terrible and probably unnecessary, but these things can be very difficult to manage in a short, violent time frame.

    I think the hospital needs to reassess it’s procedures, apologize to the patient and his husband, review current law, retrain staff, etc. Police actions should be investigated. CMS needs to come down hard on hospital hard with fines.

  372. Judy Bishop says:

    Do you not understand that the brother had little rights in this case. What was Lee’s evidence that the brother was suicidal. Time for the papers is not the issue. The papers were with the patient’s records. You have no knowledge of the system, so sit down and get your feet out of the aisle.

  373. Thank You

  374. Judy Bishop says:

    What an idiot you are! The hospital did have the documents, but the nurse refused to get them off the chart. I worked there, and I know what the rules. Sit down and shut up you complete idiot!

  375. Do you have the link where it mentions that the hospital apologized? I wasn’t able to find said article…

  376. That IS a sad story…. In this case though the HHS regulations are CLEARLY behind Mr. Gorley and, from what I can understand were violated by Research Medical Center. Also if you read further down John even got an admission from the hospital administration that if Mr. Gorley had showed and ID that showed co-habitation that would have been enough for Mr. Gorley to remain. The nurse screwed up and the hospital now needs to formally apologize.

  377. Judy Bishop says:

    You know I used to work for the cooperation that owns RHMC which is HCA. Ask the nurses who work there if their first priority is patient care…..NOT. There 1st priority is $$$. It is against the law regarding the things they did. The family member had no right (by law) to ask the partner to be removed. The Power of Attorney should have been looked at and not refused. What was wrong with this nurse and the hospital. They were totally ignorant. But knowing this corporation, I am so not surprised. I truly hope HCA, RHMC, and the KCPD get sued. This would be so great, because they so deserve it. Take if from someone who knows..

  378. Joe B says:

    Im a nurse, and Im gay. Ive worked ICU for years. One time I had a gay couple, one was in a coma and the other was at the bed side. But they were not Married, (State of WI) and they also had never drawn up DPOA papers. So the legal next of kin for the man in the coma was the mother. The mother did not accept her sons homosexuality and ordered us to remove her sons gay partner and demanded that we could no longer give him updates, and he could not visit his critically ill lover of 12 years. These two men owned a home together, were beneficiaries on each others life insurance, but forgot to write their DPOA, so the next of kin got the power. And sadly….we had no choice put to obey her. To not do so would have meant violating law and could have cost use our licenses to practice nursing. Hardest thing I had to do as a nurse, and one of the reasons I left patient care. Its time this fucking country’s law makers get their noses out of the asses of the Christian Right and start representing ALL of us, not just the ones with money and power. The happy end to the story is that when the man in the coma regained enough mental capacity to do so, he told his mother to get the fuck out and asked for his lover to come back.

  379. karmanot says:

    Then do.

  380. karmanot says:

    She should be outed as well.

  381. karmanot says:

    Yep.mopped up that mess real fast!

  382. karmanot says:

    I’m just a low level Nazi following orders at the camp—-you meant that argument?

  383. Sister-in-law to be precise. I know that from the research I did today.

  384. I think it was because of how fast it blew up on social media and the fact that research was being done that contradicted the hospital’s statements culminating in this article by John.

  385. SkippyFlipjack says:

    Thank you. Everyone, email the CEO to make your voice heard.

  386. Victor says:

    BS. It can’t be that anyone can call up and say “so and so might be at risk of suicide” and they get confined for 72 hours. To do this against a person’s will, the report would have to be from someone responsible for their care or someone who could provide evidence to support the claim that there is a risk.

  387. WRONG… One at the time of the incident, in cuffs no less, and the other after the incident. Reading comprehension is not your strong point, is it?

  388. He became disruptive AFTER, you ass. Regardless of what the story says, your still side with the bigots. That says alot about you dude. Then you have the gall to call this guy out because he may/may not have attempted suicide. You really need to consider a career change. You’re not fit carry a thermometer.

  389. After the fact (Read the article again)

  390. SkippyFlipjack says:

    Justice, not mob justice.

  391. Being as the patient’s daughter was IN the room I would tend to believe her story bar any contradicting evidence. On top of that John spoke to Ms. Brown DIRECTLY (read the article) so HE also now has a first-hand account. If you can provide any evidence to the contrary then do so. Until then….

  392. R B says:

    It wasn’t said that he attempted suicide. He was just out getting a haircut and shopping for cat food. You work at a hospital with this attitude? This is EXACTLY why we need universal equality and federal laws to protect us. You should consider quitting and taking a job where people’s civil rights aren’t subject to your input.

  393. After the fact, i.e. after Mr. Gorley had already been escorted out by police IN handcuffs… Read the story again.

  394. If you report that someone is at risk of suicide, they’re generally put in a minimum of a 72 hour hold at the hospital.

  395. You have to realize the fact that Mr Gorley had to rush from work TO the hospital because of Mr. Allen’s brother’s actions. I think he could be allowed not to have the Medical PoA on him at the time, crisis situation and all. Being as Mr Allen had been there numerous times before for treatment AND, in fact, the unnnamed nurse had treated him on prior occasions it is almost a given that the Medical PoA was on file. Thereby when the dispute erupted the nurse should have immediately verified the PoA or asked for Mr. Gorley’s license to verify co-habitation. In that moment the nurse would have been following the directives of the HHS to the letter and Mr. Allen’s brother would not have had a leg to stand on. The incident wouldn’t have happened. Instead the nurse went the entirely wrong route and now Research Medical Center is having to scramble to overcome a MAJOR PR disaster.

  396. Victor says:

    I thought this was a horrible story, but i am starting to wonder if it might make sense to hold off a bit on coming to conclusions. Two things raised some skepticism. First, is the claim that Mr. Mansell was put in the hospital because his brother reported to someone that he was a suicide risk. Supposedly, one unverified claim by an adult sibling is enough to have paramedics swoop in and immediately commit you to a hospital against your will. Doubt it. Second, there is this new claim that the brother has filed “elder abuse” charges against Mr. Gormley. No details provided otherwise. But as is clear from the photo, Mr. Mansell isn’t elderly.

    There are too many claims out there that make no sense. So I will wait to see if the story pans out. If it does, then we should insist that the Obama Administration enforce its policy and pull Medicare funding for the hospital unless there is a sea change in policy and attitude.

  397. Don Long says:

    Once again,”THEY” didn’t kick him out. The patient asked him to leave. The staff just abided. You’re interpretation of the article is as flawed as the logic you display here.

  398. R B says:

    This clearly surprised me. I’ve not known CMS to move this quickly.

  399. BeccaM says:

    Here’s some additional early background, apparently from Roger himself via his FB page. It ends abruptly, not sure why. I really don’t ‘get’ the new FB interface:

    Yesterday was a traumatic day for me. My daughter came out to my house to help me with my Husband and life partner Allen Mansell. He was suffering from some bad side effects from his medications and lack of ECT treatments due to the large snow storm that occurred a while back as well as the ECT facility forcing him to reschedule many times. (For those who don’t know ECT [electro shock therapy] is a commonly used treatment for individuals with severe depression. If you get off of your schedule AT ALL it can cause serious side effects. So he was exhibiting symptoms that were “normal” for what he was going through).

    My daughter spent the entire day with him and even had her daughter, Lily (4.5 yrs old) with her. He was just sluggish and was slurring his words. With the chronic medical conditions that he has the best we (as family) can do is ensure he is hydrated properly, eating the right foods, taking his medicine on time, and providing a safe place for him.

    Allen wanted to get his hair cut and the cats needed their food. So Amanda (my daughter) and him along with Lily went to the hair stylist to get his hair cut and then Hy-Vee for cat food. He was noticeably sluggish and slurring his words while in public but doing well and he was wanting to do these errands. We picked up lunch and headed home.

    Upon arriving home Amanda was bombarded by police, paramedics, and Allen’s family. Lee, Allen’s brother, called the police, said he was a suicide risk (which he was not and ALLEN said so 4 times) but the cops “forced” him to go anyway b/c they said he was a danger to himself. So my daughter called me and the following story ensued.

    That’s where the post ends. There is no ‘following story.’ But judging from Chip Council’s post below and Lee Mansell’s reported elder abuse charges, it really does sound like Lee is trying to break up his brother’s marriage to Roger and to force a denial of any contact, even if it comes at the price of declaring Allen medically/mentally incompetent.

    Source: https://www.facebook.com/notes/roger-gorley/discrimination-hospital-kicks-me-out-while-i-clung-to-my-husband/10200352566250036

    Sounds like Allen’s brother, Lee, is a real piece of work… With the hospital serving as enablers for Lee’s homophobic bigotry.

  400. It is also in the blog post by Amanda Brown that John linked.

  401. That’s what John Aravosis says the daughter said… since you haven’t spoken to the daughter. Or… that’s what this website says John said the daughter said… since you haven’t met John face-to-face. Come on, believe eyewitness accounts, or don’t.

  402. karmanot says:

    Ah, I was right.

  403. karmanot says:

    WTF—took the patient to the hospital by force.

  404. According to what Amanda told WDAF, the nurse was personally acquainted with all of them from prior occasions. It isn’t really an issue of “did she know?” but rather “why did she intentionally violate the law?”

  405. R B says:


  406. Chip Council says:

    Oops, it wasn’t his daughter, it was his sister in Law. Apparently this guy Lee Mansell is harassing the hell out of Roger. I bet he was the one that got him worked up and manic before their vacation that was ruined.

  407. R B says:

    Yeah, we SHOULDN’T have to be treated like this, but thanks to the voters of 30+ states and currently the federal government, we have no rights in these matters and need to protect ourselves. This is why we need UNIVERSAL equality now.

  408. OuyevolituB says:

    No, that’s what the daughter said. The patient hasn’t said anything. You should get your facts straight.

    And you think I am the one who didn’t read the article?

  409. Jay, you are correct on the first part (heck, anyone who is exposed to blood puts on gloves regardless…even people coaching kids). However, since Mr. Mansell had been treated at this hospital on many occasions, his POA should have been on file. According to another story, and a relative of Mr. Mansell’s, Mr. Gorley didn’t have time to get the papers…he was notified at work that Lee Mansell had come to the house and then called authorities to have his brother admitted involuntarily because Lee claimed Allen was suicidal.

  410. Sassifras says:

    The hospital staff clearly mishandled a sensitive situation. As seems to be the case (even though you seem to think that the men’s daughter is a liar), if they were both being “disruptive” (whatever that means, since the hospital won’t really provide details), the nurse should have defaulted with the person who a) has the legal authority to make decisions for the patient, and b) has been requested to stay by the patient.

    At best the nurse made a careless choice, and the hospital should apologize. By the way, yes, the hospital did ask the brother to leave, but only because the patient told them to. They don’t get points for that, re: your comments above.

  411. BeccaM says:

    Holy crap… wow. ‘Elder abuse’? Committed against whom, Roger’s own husband?

    I think ‘jerk’ is far too mild a term…

  412. Actually, I am surprised the hospital did NOT apologize. As a retired RN I can tell you, we were always aware that if we did ANYTHING questionable the hospital would throw us under the bus without hesitation in order to avoid a lawsuit. Not only has this hospital now invited a lawsuit, they could lose any and all Federal funding for their actions under a 2010 law….

  413. OuyevolituB says:

    Both were.

  414. Chip Council says:

    Update from his daughter:

    Angela Mansell:

    My jerk of a brother-in-law Lee Mansell has now filed elder abuse charges against Allen’s husband Roger Gorley. I am so pissed. Fortunately, Roger was able to see Allen tonight with a caseworker’s help who sat with them during his visit and was able to witness their loving reunion and relationship. I want so bad to post Lee’s email address so everyone can email him to tell him what a bigoted jerk he is!

  415. R B says:

    As long as the patient is not incapacitated verbal consent of his choice of support persons is all that is required per CMS guidelines updated 1/11/16 in response to the President’s memorandum of 4/15/10. According the witness Amanda, Allen gave this consent.




  416. No, it was in another report. The couple was supposed to leave for Amsterdam Wednesday but, because the brother had Allen Mansell admitted using the claim that he was suicidal, they missed their flight.

  417. Terry Leftgoff says:

    I remember what it was like during the 1980 and 1990’s, when hospitals routinely ignored Powers of Attorney and gay relationships. I experienced something similar when my best friend, who had no blood relatives, was dying. His nurses would not change his soiled sheets (so I did), would not enter his room even to feed him (they left the tray by the door; so I did). The hospital did not honor my Power of Attorney. This was in the late 1990’s at a major hospital in Los Angeles.

    It was appalling, cruel and unconscionable at the most vulnerable time in his life.

    And yet, this happens again. There need to be serious consequences that send a strong message to all these homophobic states with constitutional amendments refusing to respect gay marriages. This is where federalism must be asserted to protect our rights.

  418. FatRat says:

    I cringed while reading it. Not feeling proud to be an American today.

  419. LegalBegal says:

    Good. I believe the appropriate result there is to lose all federal funds, in this case Medicare/Medicaid payments.

  420. Chip Council says:

    You know, CMS requires them to conduct an investigation when there are complaints and I am surprised they responded so quickly without having time to investigate what happened.

  421. TerriGeer says:

    Not all medical facility has digitized records.

    When I go to Dr I take a freshly printed list of my medications. There have been far too many times that they have had to search for them and not found them.

  422. Terry Leftgoff says:

    Send a message to all those homophobes in states with constitutional amendments refusing to respect gay marriages. Tell the White House the ugly hospital incident is unconscionable. Sign the White House petition.


  423. Literate person says:

    Dude, go re-read what the daughter said. Rude.

  424. You are so right about that. Editing yourself is very difficult. Unless you come back later with “new eyes.”

  425. Chip Council says:

    Good points Ryan. I am not a PR person or an Attorney, but it would have made more sense to me to put this out until things simmered down. “We take all complaints of discrimination seriously and we are conducting an investigation.” They just slammed the guy like he was a nut job without knowing all the fact. Go figure. :/

  426. Chip Council says:

    Damn John A, we are going to have to keep you! Great reporting after a day of trying to find out what REALLY happened!

  427. Justin says:

    The hospital and police are just a bunch of homophobic assholes. And I don’t care what the hospital stated or what the police obtained. It was discrimination nonetheless. And secondly the daughter saying well my father got AIDS for being gay. Newsflash bitch, anyone can get AIDS its called not having safe sex. This story made me sick to my stomach. The bottom-line this world and society need to grow the fuck up stop the hate, bigotry, prejudice and discrimination. And its time to repeal DOMA, get rid of prop 8. And let everyone be entitled to equality.

  428. Don Long says:

    yeah, the Patient asked the brother leave. Not the staff and not the cops, no they made his Partner leave. Sounds like YOU need to reread the story.

  429. “One thing is for sure, if blood is drawn, the police are going to react as though that blood is infected with any number of things, because they simply have no way to know otherwise. I honestly don’t think the cop’s reaction was due to anyone’s sexuality. ”

    Clearly, you did not see the policemen in the 80’s and 90’s, who would put on gloves only when beating the hell out of gay people. In Cincinnati, in a bar raid, they beat one guy who started to bleed. Since he was HIV+, they then arrested him for attempted murder because he had infected blood.

    Politics includes history of what has happened before. Wanna know why the gay community resisted making lists of HIV+ people, in the mid-80’s? Another history lesson.

  430. Tor says:

    Billy, I am sorry for your loss.

  431. from what i hear they both should have been removed. and anyone straight or gay resisting police is asking for trouble. The daughter is embellishing a little to make an issue. Cops where gloves most of the time. I know if i seen blood i would. The nurse should be punished as well for not getting to the bottom of things first. I think just a situation unfortunately being used to gain attention. If the dad was in and out of it, its surprising he was awake to say who he want there. its his brother for gods sake. I think its all out of proportion and there are some lies there.

  432. R B says:

    Did it last? They are sanitizing their Facebook page and removing comments.

  433. Ryan says:

    This shows the importance of good training. One nurse can create a huge legal and public relations nightmare for a hospital. Many of my friends and family (along with myself at one point) work for a hospital that frequently gets celebrity patients. The training makes it very clear that you cannot discuss a patient’s presence with anyone beyond what has been reported in the media. If you do, you are likely to be fired. Hospitals need to make sure that their employees are similarly well-informed about the regulations, policies, and procedures surrounding patient visitation so that an individual nurse’s misunderstanding or personal prejudices don’t determine the outcome.

  434. Accountability is not about the nurse, but the nurse’s supervisors and the nurse’s training. You don’t need her name.

  435. why not have to have documents? You should have id and documents for everyones protection. its for straight couples too or any one can show up and start making decisions

  436. karmanot says:

    Exactly. It’s pure and full formed, old fashion Missura bigotry.

  437. Neverpreparedenough says:

    Even when the POA is filed in the chart, it is best to have it in hand each and every time – my partner has been hospitalized 28 times in the past two years, and on 27 times I had the paper in hand, and was told “no worries, we have it right here”. The one time I did not have it because she had been released and re-admitted 16 hours later, to the same hospital as the previous 27 admissions, I ran across the ONE JERK that refused to listen to me or allow me to consent for her or even be with her until I went home, leaving her languishing in the ER for over an hour, and could return back with it…. we now keep copies in BOTH vehicles, as well as an extra copy in the “mother in law” vehicle, and I have it stored on my I-Phone. Heterosexual couples would NOT have to go through these kinds of hoops. They don’t even have to show proof of marriage – it is simply accepted as so if they say they are the spouse. The fact that the patients own wishes in this case in Missouri, out of his own mouth were completely ignored are absolutely appalling.

  438. KT Kacer says:

    From change.org: http://chn.ge/16QA4cL
    remove all Medicare funding from Research Medical Center in Kansas City, MO. | We the People: Your Voice in Our Government http://1.usa.gov/XvlTqA

  439. Benji says:

    Do you dispute that she was there in the room?

  440. I blatantly told the hospital on their Facebook page that they mishandled the situation, and that if they want to retain any semblance of propriety they should immediately declare that fact.

    Proper handling: Remove Gorley from the situation, letting him know that the action is temporary to allow both him and the patient’s brother to calm down; verify that Gorley has every legal right to be there, both through medical power of attorney and at the patient’s own request; return to the brother and indicate that the hospital can’t comply with his request, and that he will need to remain calm and respectful if he wants to remain in the room; then allow Gorley to return to the room.

    Improper handling: See above.

  441. karmanot says:

    Then ‘F’ yourself troll.

  442. The nurse should be fired for inciting this whole incident.

  443. karmanot says:


  444. karmanot says:

    Sounds like they run the hospital.

  445. No, they need to be seen losing cash as a result of their actions. It’s the only way for other hospitals to realize that breaking laws is not only illegal, but expensive.

  446. Bovine500 says:

    The above article doesn’t play up any aspect of the patient’s medical condition, and regardless of whether Mr. Gorley shared too much information with the media it isn’t necessary for anyone to repeat those details. The above article doesn’t mention the reason for Mr. Mansell’s hospitalization, and it isn’t an issue. The only issue is whether Mr. Mansell’s instructions — which he expressed in writing before his admission — were carried out. It sounds as if his wishes were ignored.

  447. NCMan says:

    what are you talking about? Introducting facts not in evidence?

  448. R B says:

    Unless the patient is incapacitated paperwork is not required for the patient to select his/her support persons. Verbal consent is all that is required per the CMS guidelines updated on 1/16/11.

  449. karmanot says:

    Probably weren’t enough illustrations.

  450. CT14 says:

    Actually, in psychiatric cases, many releases are signed that are good for up to a year. Allen had been there recently for treatment. The nurse knew them.

    How did she verify Lee was the brother? Lee certainly didn’t have any paperwork that granted him Power of Attorney or indicated that he was entitled to make decisions for Allen, because he didn’t have that authority.

    Absent new paperwork, the nurse should have relied on the patient’s files.

    As for having to carry your documents with you all the time–that’s precisely why we need marriage equity. I’ve never shown my marriage certificate to anyone, nor have I shown a birth certificate for my children in a hospital–and we don’t share a last name.

  451. PeteWa says:

    we did hear from the patient himself – he wanted his brother gone and his spouse there.

    I know, it would have required you to read the article to have understood that without bloviating.

  452. Don Long says:

    Gees, what a douche bag. He’s playing the “my other half is in a hospital bed and wants me at his side” card.

    But if 2 people are fighting, both need to be asked to step outside.

  453. karmanot says:

    Repeating yourself again and again is asking for it troll.

  454. OMG if it were me they would definitely have to arrest me because I would have kicked the living shit out of the nurse. The police too. How embarrassing for their department to have such losers with badges. LOL.

  455. karmanot says:

    Cops were only doing their duty: being thugs and violating civil rights and then lying about it in court.

  456. OuyevolituB says:

    This is the gay discrimination card. It’s kind of like the black discrimination card.


  457. BeccaM says:

    Tell that to any straight married couple.

  458. karmanot says:

    Justice is not vindictive, it’s truth in search of accountability.

  459. James Peace-Mankiewicz says:

    This would not happen here in the UK, the NHS and Police are legally required to take any patients partners wishes into account wether they are gay straight lesbian or transgender, an especially if the partner has Power of Attornery!!!

  460. karmanot says:

    Well aren’t you just the sour note. A’hole.

  461. BeccaM says:

    That same medical facility, if you introduce the opposite sex person standing next to you as your wife, does not then demand to have a copy of your marriage license to keep on file.

  462. R B says:

    One important point to consider….although it’s a good idea to have and AD and a POA, BUT and this is a big BUT…on 4/15/10 President Obama issued a Presidential Memorandum on Hospital Visitation This has since been adopted by CMS, effective 1/16/11. It changes the rules that govern all hospitals that accept Medicaid and Medicare have been updated. These rules cover all patients, not just those covered under Medicaid/Medicare.

    Here’s the but…according to the updated CMS rules, the hospital CAN NOT require written proof from the patient regarding choice of support persons, unless the patient is incapacitated The patient can give verbal consent. This means that if Allen told the nurse that he wanted Roger there, then that should have been sufficient. NO PAPERWORK REQUIRED. This nurse violated the CMS Medicare Conditions of Participation and this is a serious issue.

  463. karmanot says:

    Those hospital security staff awere probably chosen from the rejects of Missouri’s TSA applicants.

  464. BeccaM says:

    Gay people shouldn’t be treated like criminals or second class citizens. Do you understand that your friends shouldn’t HAVE to carry that expensive and redundant legal paperwork everywhere they go, just because they’re a gay or lesbian couple?

  465. KateB says:

    Okay, I’ve been reading the comments about whether or not the paper work was appropriately provided, referenced, whatever. I have to ask, and this is an honest question as I have no personal experience, if the situation was a blood sibling asking the straight partner of the patient to leave would the nurse insist on paperwork or would they take the spouses word initially until paperwork could be brought? Because I think the issue here isn’t the proper paperwork and such but whether spouse or relative has more authority sans paperwork and if the situation changes based on the gender of the spouse or relative.

  466. CT14 says:

    The ironic thing is that if the hospital admitted it made a mistake, offered to discipline the nurse and review what Power of Attorney means with its staff, they might not get sued at all.

    By taking a hard line they insure they will be sued, since that’s the only way the aggrieved party can get any relief.

    Stupid AND bigoted.

  467. pappyvet says:

    Excellent article John. Roger had every legal right to be there, Allen had every legal right to have him stay and according to the article,wanted him to. So what would the response be if one of them had been of the other gender. Cannot imagine a wife or husband of opposite gender being pulled from their spouses sickbed.

  468. karmanot says:

    One expects it from thug cops, but not in a center of healing and medicine.

  469. Sunnysmom says:

    If someone told you to leave your ill spouse’s bedside, wouldn’t you raise holy hell??

  470. OuyevolituB says:

    The brother was made to leave. Read the story.

  471. BeccaM says:

    Are you married? If so, do you carry a copy of your marriage certificate with you everywhere?

  472. OuyevolituB says:

    Sorry, but that cat is out of the bag- and it was Mr. Gorley who let it out of the bag. So blame him.

  473. karmanot says:


  474. OuyevolituB says:

    I’m bi, so I find your comment somewhat amusing.

  475. OuyevolituB says:

    Yeah…according to the daughter….a completely unbiased source.

    You know they kicked the other family disruptive family member out as well, right?

  476. armyguy says:

    this may be the allen’s brother, Lee. maybe he will speak on the record. Lee Mansell (who according to posts on the research medical center FB page and who claims to know the family) attended police academy in Missouri https://www.facebook.com/lee.mansell.12

  477. MikeInTexas says:

    There is more being posted at TV station website by someone claiming to be the arrested man’s sister in law. http://fox4kc.com/2013/04/10/man-no-longer-allowed-to-visit-husband-at-kc-area-hospital/ Look for the name Angela Mansell. I believe this is Amanda’s mother. .

  478. SkippyFlipjack says:

    First responders do wear gloves, but it sounds from the daughter’s report that there was more to it than that.

  479. karmanot says:

    “And oddly enough, a sick person isn’t listened to very much.” That’s why I’m amazed you get any line at all.

  480. SkippyFlipjack says:

    Actually, the first reporting did mention the family aspect — it was in the TV news clip in the very first linked article, and in the article text — but John left it out of his initial summary. I think it’s great that he’s gone to lengths to get the full story throughout the day.

  481. CT14 says:

    He had Power of Attorney–that gives him the right to know patient information, make medical decisions, and limit visitors if his spouse is unable to do so.

    The brother should have been made to leave, but he was allowed to stay as “family”. As if he was the closest relative and able to make decisions.

    Legally, the hospital broke the law. They’ve got no leg to stand on here. The nurse’s bigotry overrode her responsibilities under the law, and the hospital is responsible and should pay for it.

  482. karmanot says:

    Shove up your man purse honey!

  483. MikeInTexas says:

    There is a post at the following link from someone claiming to be the sister in law of the arrested man. It has details I have not seen elsewhere. The post says that the patient’s brother had him involuntarily admitted. The reason the spouse did not have the paperwork is that he rushed to the hospital directly from work when he learned what happened. There’s more too ….


  484. karmanot says:

    “(or even flies on the wall)” I would definitely categorize you as a shit fly.

  485. SkippyFlipjack says:

    Let’s be clear on this: You want the nurse’s phone number so you can what, call and scream at her I guess, based on events that you don’t have any first-person knowledge of, and anyone who thinks that is bad behavior is “cowering”? What a turd you seem to be.

  486. Marco Luxe says:

    Thanks, John.

  487. Bovine500 says:

    I disagree with your statement that Mr. Gorley should have been removed from his husband’s hospital room, but your letter raises another issue which is equally disturbing.

    This incident has made a hospital patient’s private situation public. You’re entitled to express any opinion you want in your comment, but please refrain from making any references to the patient’s condition. Every hospital patient deserves that basic respect.

  488. nicho says:

    Fuck you, homophobe.

  489. North of the 49th says:

    Doesn’t surprise me – if pharmacists in MO can choose what prescriptions they will fill or not (birth control), why not nurses choose who sees a patient – thank God I live in Canada

  490. Skeptical Cicada says:

    What is a “gay discrimination card,” bigot?

    Would that be where somebody resists discrimination, and you sweep in and attack him for not compliantly submitting?

  491. nicho says:

    It’s part of your medical record. They can look it up with two clicks of a mouse — if they want to.

  492. Skeptical Cicada says:

    And the public needed police officers on the street doing their jobs instead of arresting Mr. Gorley because his brother-in-law is a bigot.

  493. Benji says:

    The patient himself spoke out that he wanted his partner there, or did you not see that?

  494. karmanot says:

    Log Cabin?

  495. OuyevolituB says:

    This may come as a huge surprise to you, but you can get kicked out of a hospital for being disruptive – even with a POA or as NOK.

  496. paulflorez says:

    The patient wouldn’t even be at the hospital if the brother hadn’t showed up at the couple’s house and had the patient taken to the hospital by force. The couple would have been packing for their vacation!

  497. OuyevolituB says:

    Don’t do that. Patients need that line for valid reasons. Not internet pseudo-vigilante asshatery.

  498. Bovine500 says:

    Sadly, it’s the people who oppose same sex marriage who will act as apologists for this outrageous ethics violation.

  499. Skeptical Cicada says:

    Go cower some more, you shilling apologist for bigotry.

  500. Someone needs a good ass kicking here. >:

  501. OuyevolituB says:

    This happens at my hospital all the time. Disruptive family members get the boot and one always claims they are being unfairly discriminated against. This time it happens that one of the disruptive guys was gay – so he is playing the “gay discrimination card.”

    And his daughter is hardly an unbiased source. How about we here from the rest of the patient’s family – or the patient himself?

    Oh that’s right, he just tried to commit suicide and probably doesn’t want all this attention. Way to go family and spouse!!

  502. SkippyFlipjack says:

    Not when kneejerk, irresponsible loudmouths like you are involved, no it wouldn’t.

  503. karmanot says:

    Thank you kiss ass collaborator. I expect you would show up with donuts to calm the police attack.

  504. Skeptical Cicada says:

    It would be completely appropriate for the nurse responsible for the arrest to be publicly outed.

    Go cower in a corner and get the fuck out of the way.

  505. Bovine500 says:

    This definitely sounds like homophobic discrimination, carried to the point of cruel absurdity. The hospital staff should have respected the wishes of their patient, but instead they chose to damage his trust along with the trust of the person who is responsible for his care.

    Sadly, legally binding documents aren’t always the last word. If someone with power wants to break the law, all we can do is hope the injured parties will be represented well after the fact.

    It isn’t unheard of for healthcare workers to do these things. Although I don’t believe my own experience was motivated by homophobia, an unstable relative persuaded some — but not all — of my mother’s care providers to withhold information from me. That was in direct violation of the written instructions she had issued before she got sick. I wasn’t told about two serious diagnoses (found out only when I saw the death certificate), and her caregivers didn’t call me when she passed away.

    The relative who interfered with my mother’s wishes had a habit of getting what he wanted by scaring people, so I suspect the caregivers were bullied. They lacked the courage to uphold patient rights when a dysfunctional family situation arose.

    What happened to Mr. Mansell and Mr. Gorley was a tragedy, and with luck maybe the bad publicity will discourage this hospital and others from committing similar abuses in the future.

  506. Rodney Post says:

    To say this situation is appalling is an understatement. Within the legal limits, I would sue everyone involved for everything I possibly could as well as having their jobs terminated. This is unacceptable and for all the people that do not support same sex marriage, “Wake Up”!!!!! It is time that the government changes and makes it a federal law that you can marry, label it a contract; civil union, whatever. Straight people do not understand how important it is to have a legal binding document when medical issues arise.

  507. karmanot says:

    The hospital is blaming the victim! I hope they get sued to hell and back.

  508. karmanot says:

    I’d knock his F’ing lights out. We went through this so many times during the Reagan period and now, here it is again.

  509. I had to deal with this kind of discrimination back in the early 80’s when my partner had AIDS and was being treated like a leper. With no insurance he was admitted to USC hospital, which if you’ve never been is a little bit like The Shining. Huge, old and scary. He was covered in sores from KS and all he wanted was to be able to adjust his bed so that he wasn’t in constant pain from a combination of bed sores and KS lesions. What started out as a simple request quickly escalated into the entire wing of the hospital yelling at each other, some on my side, others on the nurses side. It boiled down to the nurse in charge on that floor not liking that we were Gay and partners. She made herself very clear many times that it was a “religious thing”. So much for the hippocratic oath. My partner laid there the whole time in shock. When the hospital security finally showed up, the doctor actually pulled rank and warned anyone that crossed him would get fired and to take care of my partner immediately. I loved that doctor. The next day the head of nursing asked me to her office. It was the size of a football field and appeared to be a hundred years old. She reminded me of Nurse Ratched except she was incredibly sweet. She apologized for her nurses behavior and said if I had any further problems to contact her. I eventually called a friend who is an attorney and got medical power of attorney. I loved flashing that thing at registration. I was very young and everyone was scared to death of AIDS. All I wanted was to try and make my partner comfortable while he literally proceeded to die. I feel very bad for this couple and I sincerely hope they get an apology from the hospital nurse and their family. A lot of people never experience discrimination so it’s just absolutely foreign to them. Throw illness into the mix and emotions soar. We can all be much kinder to each other. Maybe Roger and Allen’s story will remind people of that.

  510. Although i haven’t had this kind of issue with my hospital visits . i have been in the hospital at least 6 times in the last 5 yr do to illness. The last time I was in the hopsital for gall bladder removal and a biopsey for my liver. They asked me what I could take for pain. I said I can only take morphine. Due to some other pain killer having a reaction too. They gave me dilauduid which was stronger and I had never taken before. and for some reason I reacted badly. Some how I ended up reacting to this being mean and angry . I was told I tore out 2 IV’s and I have no idea how I ended up in a room with 20 staff members looking on at me and taunting me and trying to calm me down. Somehow they did . But while trying to get back into my bed the 20 something young man decided that i was not going fast enough for him picked me up by the neck of my gown and waist band of my shorts and slammed me face down into the bed . This was no later than 7 hrs after having surgery . i called the cops and had him arrested for assualt. They would not let tell me what happened . When my lawyer get thru with them. I will be having nice drink on a beach in Hawaii and buying my modest home with cash. In was treated very badly due to their decision and mistakes. This was at the LARGO MEDICAL CENTER in Largo Florida in 2010.

  511. Completely agree that nurse did not act appropriately. For heaven’s sake the patient told her what he wanted! However, on the paperwork front I have to say this — I was my mother’s primary caregiver for several years. Even though we made multiple visits to the same hospital I had to re-provide all the legal documentation — POA, etc. In an emergency it is all too easy to forget. When I did forget the nurse allowed me to email it to her & she would print a copy for them. Again, the nurse made very poor choices.

  512. Judy Jackson says:

    This is horrible. Bad enough to be sick, but to NOT be allowed to have your spouse by your side. It breaks my heart. It isn’t just the gay community who are outraged by this. MANY people are outraged & we are sending our very best wishes to Allen & Roger. My husband suffers from depression so I know how debilitating it can be. Add other health problems to it & it is even worse.

  513. A full investigation, along with corrections in the policy, dismissal of the nurse, review and discipline where needed at the police dept. and a huge punitive damages settlement, will be a cure all and warning to other hospitals who try to play this game.

  514. oldgrump says:

    The administration at your doctors office requests your insurance information on occasion as…insurances can lapse, for a variety of reasons, and the insurance company is not required to notify providers as such. Thus, to be sure the medical facility can get paid, they verify the insurance policy is still active.

    A Power of Attorney can be cancelled, revoked, or superseded BUT it must be in writing and presented by either the holder of the new Power of Attorney or the person granting the PofA. Unless given written notice as to the events superseding the original PofA, the original still holds place.

  515. dnamj says:

    And the police, who had no business even being there.

  516. dnamj says:

    Time to sur the living fuck out of that hospital and the nurse.

  517. Irish Rose says:

    No my doctors office does not ask me for card every time I come in. They have it on file!

  518. olderbuilder says:

    In these cases where the persons are not married under federal law, the papers have to be in the persons hands. We are talking files folks not a card. If the papers are in the chart staff does not have to go looking for the papers. The papers have to be able to be seen upon opening the chart. A family member can over ride the legal paper work until a judge can settle the case. That takes weeks/months IF you can find a judge to allow the POA to stand. These are federal laws which override state laws.

  519. usagi says:

    No, my doctor doesn’t ask for my card every time.
    Why blow it up? SO THAT IT NEVER FUCKING HAPPENS TO ANYONE AGAIN. The hospital had multiple chances to fix this, and they’ve blown them all. At this point, they’re counting on the people they’ve victimized not having the will to fight them.
    Fuck. That. Noise.
    I hope that by the time the couple, their lawyers, the feds, and maybe 4chan is done with them every hospital in the country is terrified to do anything other than throw the bio family out of the room first the next time something like this happens (but I guess I could settle for following their own fucking policy and the law).

  520. Irish Rose says:

    Blood should have never been drawn in the first place! That is police brutality & human rights violations! If they would have took the time to find out who had the legal right to be there (They are the law & that is their job.) They would have known that the man had every legal right to be in that room. SO YES! This was because of this mans sexuality!

  521. thatgirlinnewyork says:

    Agree! But admitting a mistake and apologizing, to a hospital’s mindset, invites a legal challenge. We’re talking about gutless corporations who manage “care”–not the caring hospitals of yore. Disgusting.

  522. SkippyFlipjack says:

    Nice work John, thanks for the reporting.

  523. SkippyFlipjack says:

    No, it wouldn’t be cool. The hospital’s CEO’s contact info has been posted above. Use that instead.

  524. thatgirlinnewyork says:

    Actually, no–it’s not the same thing. Your insurance card says you’re covered, and that the hospital has a reasonable chance of recovering funds for care. The medical power of attorney follows patient files, and for someone who’s been in and out of the hospital as of late (as the daughter indicates), that status should be noted, if not physically attached to a chart.

  525. Emily Hill says:

    I hate humanity sometimes I demand my family take me to another hospital and not pay one red cent to this one if my partner wasn’t allowed

  526. Michael Smith says:

    I hope the DOJ sues somebody over this.

  527. Byzantine_Ruins says:

    Nobody “should” have extensive legal documentation of their legal relationship with their spouse on their person at all times. No tolerance for discrimination. This will be fixed very swiftly, and your advice will be proven to be a concession without merit. Don’t concede so easily, you must force the enemy to give you what you want.

  528. d3clark says:

    CEO of Research Medical Center: Kevin J. Hicks
    Ph: 816-276-4000
    email: [email protected]

  529. outraged equality fighter says:

    Despicable behavior from both the hospital and the cops.

  530. Russ says:

    Great reporting, thanks for getting this interview and sharing the details with us. Way to go, John.

  531. Erika Masse says:

    I am horrified by this story. I agree with the poster below who stated that first responders will treat all bodily fluids as possibly infected, but I can completely understand why, in light of everything else that this family just went through it would appear that the cop was reacting to the gentleman’s sexuality. And who knows – maybe he was. I am confused – the other stories, including the statements from the hospital, indicated that the “officers” who removed the husband from the room were hospital security staff, not police officers. In either case, the entire situation was handled incorrectly. Shame on the hospital, shame on the brother and shame on whoever arrested the husband.

  532. I want a statement by the nurse stating that she had no idea there was a power of attorney. If she doesn’t, then she knew. And she knowingly disregarded it. I want to hear from the hospital or nurse confirmation of the power of attorney….

  533. I, personally, wouldn’t want that… Then it is becoming to vindictive. I however would want a formal apology to Mr. Gorley from the hospital and an assurance that the nurse involved in the incident was placed on administrative leave pending an investigation. I am sure that Research Medical Center is now getting worried due to the fact that the Fed’s and possibly the ACLU is becoming involved.

  534. Byzantine_Ruins says:

    The officers are unionized and protected from complaints by mere mortals.

  535. Stev84 says:

    *yawn* Completely different issue.

    As a patient you aren’t necessarily responsible for keeping your own medical file up to date and with you (unless it’s from another hospital). When you hand someone legal documents, they usually scan them and file them for future reference.

  536. We wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place if the unnamed nurse had not done her job, i.e. Instead of automatically taking the blood family member’s direction to have Mr. Gorley escorted out and instead made sure, either by asking for a license or checking the medical record, that Mr. Gorley was allowed in the room. It is THAT simple. The nurse failed in her job and thereby the police were called in, Mr. Gorley was arrested and the tale goes on from there. To add injury the hospital blames Mr. Gorley instead of issuing a formal apology to him. Sorry I don’t by anything Research Medical Center says now…NOT after all the research I have done today.

  537. Rommy Bejar says:

    it would be really cool if the nurse’s name became public… she deserves it

  538. Jay M. says:

    I do get it. Every time I walk into a medical facility, they ask for my insurance card. This is no different. It’s not their responsibility to maintain that, mostly because it can change due to death, divorce (how would the nurse know they hadn’t divorced a week ago and not updated the files?). And oddly enough, a sick person isn’t listened to very much.

  539. Dana Smith says:

    The hospital had the paperwork on file, there is no excuse for this.

  540. 1 816 282 5000 is the hospital phone number. cell phone long distance is free. call them and raise hell.. there is strength in numbers

  541. Dana Smith says:

    It IS their job and they should have it on file, since the patient had been treated there before.

  542. Jay, See John’s answer above concerning the paperwork. Even the administration of the hospital admits that showing co-habitation was enough. However the unnamed nurse FAILED to ask for it. This, on the part of that nurse, is either willful negligence or outright prejudice, I can’t say which. The hospital’s employee messed up thereby it is up to the hospital to correct the problem and issue a formal apology.

  543. what do you expect from cops who have sex with sheep

  544. Jay M. says:

    Believe me, I think the whole thing was handled badly, but insinuating the cops were homophobic is just not right, though I don’t think the hospital did enough. But “having it on file” isn’t enough. Doesn’t your doctor’s office ask to see your insurance card every time you come in, or at least ask if anything has changed? Now multiply this by 100’s of patients in 100’s of scenarios. We are just too quick to sensationalize things that were yes, bad, but none of us were in that room (or even flies on the wall) and of course, the hospital can’t and won’t say a thing, due to privacy rules. So instead of petitions on whitehouse.gov, involving the ACLU, and all that, why don’t the parties sit down and FIX IT AMONGST THEMSELVES!

  545. I hope John won’t be upset by this but I have been following this story all day long and picking up tidbits here and there and sending them to John. The interview above was a culmination of that research.. John if you want to beat me over the head with a wet noodle for getting out of place I’ll gladly take it… Although my hubby MAY want to watch.

  546. Stev84 says:

    You don’t get it. What she meant is that they should have had the necessary documents in the patient’s file. That’s why the husband didn’t ask the nurse to check whatever he may have been carrying, but to look at the patient’s file. That much was implied in the earlier reports already.

  547. d3clark says:

    Jay, agree that there is always the possibility of infection. However, gloves were used. Also the description of the gloved officer using another pair of gloves to hold the cuffs then passing them to another officer is a little overboard.

  548. Jay M. says:

    No. Just that the hospital “should have known”. Not their job.

  549. Exactly… On every level the un-named nurse failed utterly yet Mr. Gorley is being held to blame by Research Medical Center. I have been asking over and over again for the hospital to issue a formal apology, at least, to Mr. Gorley. It was failure on their employee’s part that started the whole incident at the hospital… There may have been prior issues in the family but the nurse utterly failed in her duties.

  550. Stev84 says:

    According to that interview they had it on file because they were there before. That’s why he asked her to check the file.

  551. Jay M. says:

    My friends have it in the car, in their briefcases, their manpurses, and ALWAYS grab it. Perhaps this is new to Allen and Roger, but having that is like also having your insurance card.

  552. Don Herman says:

    I’m just sickened by this whole thing. The interview with the daughter is terribly enlightening. thanks.

  553. Jay M. says:

    This is MORE of the story. Apparently no one understands how the police work, nor who should have had the appropriate documents IN HAND. (Hint: cops almost always wear gloves these days, and it’s the patient’s and spouse’s responsibility to have the correct documents, not the hospital’s).

  554. Just posted a link to his article at Buzzfeed

  555. This is unacceptable! IF my husband can stay with me if I am hospitalized, I should hope that my daughter-in-law should be able to stay with my daughter!

  556. Yeah but when you rush to the emergency, it’s hard to grab your paperwork. Having said that, the administration told me today that one piece of proof is simply showing you cohabitate – he could have simply shown his driver’s license, but according to the daughter, the nurse never asked for it, she just kicked him out.

  557. goofy_joe says:

    Wasn’t it mentioned that he had the paperwork with him but they didn’t acknowledge it at all?

  558. d3clark says:

    Medicare/Medicaid ofc in DC aware and is planning to investigate: http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/federal-officials-aim-for-speedy-response-to-missouri-hospit

  559. Just edited it again, caught a number of small mistakes, so hopefully this it much better :)

  560. Jay M. says:

    One thing is for sure, if blood is drawn, the police are going to react as though that blood is infected with any number of things, because they simply have no way to know otherwise. I honestly don’t think the cop’s reaction was due to anyone’s sexuality. To allege that is to not understand how cops work. I worked in a high school, and we treated all bodily fluids as though they could be infected (think Hep A, B, C, various other blood-borne pathogens, not to mention HIV).

    That being said, the whole thing was handled badly. Roger should have had all the paperwork IN HAND and not relied on the hospital to “know” anyone. I have friends here in VA who are legally married in other jurisdictions who carry everything with them almost all the time. That way they’ve got it if they need it. No “I forgot it in the heat of the moment”. It isn’t the hospital’s responsibility to keep all that at hand because it can change due to death, divorce, or a change of heart.

    This is a terrible example of people behaving badly. I feel so sorry for everyone involved. But one thing is for sure, a lawsuit isn’t going to fix it. Be careful when you start to place blame in a heat-of-the-moment like this.

  561. BeccaM says:

    Fantastic piece of professional journalism here, John. Finally, the real and complete story. Thank you.

    Several of the links to purportedly mainstream sources don’t mention that this began as a family dispute at all — and none mention the specifics of the events, including the appalling behavior of the nurse and the police officers.

  562. I am tired of how bullies are given an opportunity to get away. Why not fire those police officers and the hospital staff responsible for this? Let’s make this issue viral so that justice will be given.

  563. sounds like a court case

    against the hospital

    and the cops!

  564. “Amanda says the hospital did let her father back in to see his husband
    today, after her father showed up and threw a fit. Amanda says the
    family is “planning to respond,” and has been talking with the local
    ACLU, among others.” So glad he finally got in, what a nightmare for Roger. All the hospital has to do is let people know they made a mistake and apologize, but now I see a lawsuit coming so the hospital may have been advised to shut up.

  565. I am the editor, so it’s hard to edit yourself – I’m always happy, very happy, for feedback – email preferably as to the typos

  566. As quickly as this information started showing up I will give John the benefit of the doubt on his typo’s…. GREAT article, btw, John… I had a feeling something wasn’t right in Research Medical Center-land.

  567. mercury613 says:

    Thanks for the story. Great information. You guys need to step it up on the editing, though. There are several egregious typos in this article.

  568. Good fucking Lord. The full story is even worse than first reported here. If a relative of mine pulled that sort of crap on me if my partner was trying to visit me in hospital I’d never speak a polite word to him ever again.

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