Hospital contradicts own statement to police about arrest of gay man from partner’s bed

UPDATE: A former employee of Research Medical Center, and a current employee of a Hospital Corporation of America (HCA) subsidiary – HCA is the parent company of Research Medical Center – spoke out about this case and said that the hospital does not discriminate against “f*gs.”

Research Medical Center in Kansas City, Missouri, that had a gay man arrested from the hospital bedside of his husband, just issued another statement that undercuts the hospital’s claims of innocence.

As you know, this past Tuesday, Roger Gorley was handcuffed and dragged away from the bedside of his partner, Allen, after getting into an argument with Allen’s brother Lee over Allen’s care (according to Roger’s daughter, who witnessed the altercation).

The hospital claims that it had gay Roger (as I’ll call him – the story gets confusing with all the male names) arrested because he wouldn’t leave when a nurse asked him to. But now, with this latest statement from the hospital this morning, the hospital’s apparent duplicity, or at least ignorance of federal regulations, appears to finally be becoming apparent.

Let me walk you through why I believe the hospital just did itself no favors with this latest statement.

Roger-Gorley-and-AllenIn the latest statement, from HCA spokesman Rob Dyer (HCA is the parent company of Research Medical Center), the hospital claims that Gorley was asked to leave because he wouldn’t quiet down.  But at the same time, the hospital claims that Gorley was asked to show his medical power of attorney for his partner Allen, and couldn’t provide it. Leading to the proverbial: ruh roh.

This is a long story, but let me summarize the most important point right now.

This entire story in a nutshell

By admitting that they asked Roger Gorley to prove that he had medical power of attorney for his spouse, Allen, the hospital admits that things would have turned out differently had Gorley had the proof on his person.  Thus, the hospital admits that this was not, as it keeps claimingly, solely a case of a man being “disruptive.” It was a case of a gay man being unable to prove, to the hospital’s satisfaction, that he was the spouse of another gay man lying in the emergency room.  Thus the hospital’s due diligence, or lack thereof (I’d argue), in finding out whether Gorley was the spouse is relevant – nay, key – to this entire story.  And as I’ll show below, the hospital’s due diligence in following federal regulations governing same-sex hospital visitation appears to have been lacking, to say the least.

Was gay man arrested for being too loud, or not having proof of medical power of attorney?

First the hospital claims that Roger was arrested for refusing to leave because he was fighting with Lee.

But then the hospital claims, in the same statement, that Roger was kicked out because he couldn’t prove that he had the medical power of attorney for his partner, Allen, which he says he has. (Didn’t the hospital have this in its files?)

So which one is it?

Was Roger kicked out because he was being too loud, or because he couldn’t prove he was the primary person responsible for patient Allen’s health? The fact that the hospital asked for Roger’s medical power of attorney suggests they wouldn’t have kicked him out had he had it – otherwise it would have been irrelevant to ask for it – he’d have been no less “disruptive” even had he had the medical power of attorney on him.  So which one is it – was the problem that Roger was disruptive, or that he couldn’t prove that he had sole responsibility for his gay partner’s health decisions?

Why wasn’t the straight belligerent removed as well?

And if gay Roger was kicked out because he was fighting, why wasn’t straight Lee also removed?  According to Amanda, Roger’s daughter, Lee wasn’t.  But the latest news story suggests that the hospital knew both men were fighting and both men were refusing to back down:

However, HCA said the decision to ask Gorley to leave was because Gorley and Allen’s brother were fighting inside the hospital room.

“When the nurse went in to ask them to please quiet down and please stop this and they continued, and every time they stepped out it would get escalated, so she stepped back in and asked them to remove themselves for the sake of the patient at the moment,” said Rob Dyer of HCA….

“He [Gorley] and the patient’s brother were fighting in the patient’s room very loudly, very crassly, inappropriate language,” Dyer said.

Asked THEM to remove THEMselves because “they” were fighting?  Not according to Amanda, but let’s leave that aside for a moment and accept that hospital’s contention that both men were yelling and refusing to back down.  Roger was asked to leave, according to Amanda, and Lee was not.  Roger was arrested for not leaving, and Lee stayed for a while until finally he was asked to leave because Allen, the patient, said he wanted Lee to leave.

So the hospital is now claiming that both Lee and Roger refused to stop fighting, so the hospital must have asked both straight Lee and gay Roger to leave, right?  Was Lee asked to leave at the same time Roger was asked to leave?  And did he leave immediately?  The video, the hospital mentions, will prove it.  Does the video show Lee leaving when Roger was asked to leave?  And if he didn’t leave, why did the hospital not have him arrested as well?

Hospital did not appear to follow federal regulations concerning same-sex visitation rights

But it gets worse for the hospital. Under the federal regulations governing same-sex hospital visitation, the hospital does not appear to have followed the regulations – by its own admission – making it subject to possible forfeiture of its Medicare and Medicaid contracts with the federal government. Here’s why:

A) I interviewed the Medicare and Medicaid office in Washington yesterday, and got the complete details of the hospital visitation regulations.  Roger didn’t need to provide any proof of his medical power of attorney, or anything else for that matter, if, as his daughter claims, patient Allen said, during the altercation, “I want him here.”

Under federal regulations, that is all that is needed, the argument ends.  So why did the hospital ask gay Roger to prove his power of attorney?

B) Let’s assume, devil’s advocate, that the daughter is wrong, and patient Allen did not ask for Roger to stay (perhaps he was unconscious).

Federal regs say that the partner can simply say “I’m in charge,” and that’s enough UNLESS someone else asserts that they too are in charge of the patient, which appears to have happened here when Allen’s straight brother also stepped in and asserted his authority  Here’s what the regs say happens next, and I quote the federal guideline accompanying the regs:

“In such cases [when more than one individual claims to be the patient’s representative], it would be appropriate for the hospital to ask each individual for documentation supporting his/her claim to be the patient’s representative.  The hospital should make its determination of who is the patient’s representative based upon the hospital’s determination of who the patient would most want to make decisions on his/her behalf.  Examples of documentation a hospital might consider could include, but are not limited to, the following:  proof of a legally recognized marriage, domestic partnership, or civil union; proof of a joint household; proof of shared or co-mingled finances; and any other documentation the hospital considers evidence of a special relationship that indicates familiarity with the patient’s preferences concerning medical treatment.”

Let’s walk through the regs a bit:

1. The hospital is required to ask each contesting party for proof of the relationship, if the hospital is not already aware of who is in charge. But the hospital allegedly already knew the gay men were a couple, and that Roger was in charge.

The guidelines state quite clearly that “The hospital should make its determination of who is the patient’s representative based upon the hospital’s determination of who the patient would most want to make decisions on his/her behalf.”

So if the hospital already knows who is making the decisions, its determination is over.  Roger’s daughter, Amanda, says that Roger and Allen had been to the hospital together repeatedly, and that the same nurse had treated them multiple times – the nurse who called the hospital security this time.  Amanda says the nurse already knew that Roger was the gay partner in charge.  If that’s true, then she would have appeared to have violated the federal guidelines by asking for more proof.

2. But let’s say, devil’s advocate, that the nurse didn’t know who was in charge.  Why did the hospital only ask Roger for proof of his medical power of attorney, and no other proof instead of the power of the attorney?

Under the federal regs, proof can include “proof of a legally recognized marriage, domestic partnership, or civil union; proof of a joint household; proof of shared or co-mingled finances.”  Did the hospital ask Roger to show a driver’s license proving that he and the patient, Allen, share a joint household?  From what the hospital spokesman said, it sounds like the hospital made it an all-or-nothing deal, based on the medical power of attorney, and that is not the way the federal regulations work.  The hospital should have asked Roger to simply prove that they live at the same address.  Nothing in the hospital’s statement indicates that they did that.

3. What proof did the hospital ask of Lee, the brother of the patient, who was in the altercation with gay Roger, and who was not asked to leave?  The hospital’s statement suggests that they only asked for proof from the gay man, not the straight one.  Again, that’s not the way the regs work.

4. Once Roger was taken away by the police, who was in charge of patient Allen’s medical decisions?  Allen was reportedly slipping in and out of consciousness, according to Roger’s daughter Amanda.  So with Roger gone, who did the hospital accept as the person responsible for Allen’s medical decisions, and how did they make that choice, what documentation did they require from the heterosexual family members?

Police report appears to contradict new hospital statement

Oh but it gets worse. According to the police report, the hospital told the cops that the reason they ejected Roger was because the hospital “did not want to have any visitors to Allen’s room.”

But that flat-out contradicts the hospital spokesman today claiming that Roger was ejected, not because they wanted no visitors, but rather because of the fight.  And, if they didn’t want anyone in the room, then it wouldn’t have mattered if Roger had had a medical power of attorney, so why did they ask for it?  And if they wanted no visitors in the room, then why does daughter Amanda say that they were all permitted to stay in the room after the police took Roger away?

Not to mention, if the hospital wanted NO visitors in the room, then how did the other visitors witness Roger’s arrest?  That would mean that the witnesses, including Roger’s daughter and straight Lee, also refused the hospital’s request for them to leave – since the hospital wanted “no one” in the room, and they were still there when the hospital security and ultimately the police arrived.  Thus, they too were disobeying the hospital’s order to leave and were also trespassing, if the hospital is now telling the truth about what happened.  Then why weren’t Amanda and straight Lee arrested too?

The statement from HCA’s Rob Dyer seems to contradict itself, and the earlier version of events that Research Medical issued to the press and to the police.

Some of the hospital’s best friends are gay

Finally, the hospital’s “some of our best friends are gay” excuse rings a tad hollow, it’s also irrelevant:

Dyer said Gorley’s accusations are particularly upsetting given the hospital’s record.

“We were one of the first to have same-sex benefits in the market. We were one of the first to acknowledge same-sex partnerships.”

Look, that’s great that the hospital offers same-sex partner benefits.  Seriously.  This is Missouri, after all.  So kudos.  But that has nothing to do with whether every single employee, in a hospital group containing thousands of employees nationwide, is A) not a homophobe, and B) even if not a homophobe, sufficiently trained so as to know what the regulations say in detail about how they are to proceed when a family member challenges a gay partner.

It sounds, from what we’re hearing, that Research Medical Center’s staff were not fully aware of the federal regulations governing hospital visitations  or how to implement them (what training did the hospital staff have since the federal regs were promulgated, so that they’d know how to fully implement them correctly? ).

And had Roger and Allen been married for “real,” this would have never happened.  Because they were gay, it got, at best, confusing for the hospital staff.  And that means, even were no malice intended, this entire mess occurred because the patient and his spouse were gay.

At the very least, this is a great teaching moment for Research Medical, for HCA, for hospitals across America, and for every gay person who has a partner.  The fact that we cannot marry nationwide has consequences.

CyberDisobedience on Substack | @aravosis | Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the Executive Editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown; and has worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, the United Nations Development Programme, and as a stringer for the Economist. He is a frequent TV pundit, having appeared on the O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline, AM Joy & Reliable Sources, among others. John lives in Washington, DC. .

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199 Responses to “Hospital contradicts own statement to police about arrest of gay man from partner’s bed”

  1. R B says:

    We just received this via FAX today. It’s just the draft copy, so please check the spelling and return it ASAP.





    MAY 6, 2013

    I extend to you my personal thanks and the sincere appreciation of a grateful nation for your contribution of honorable service to our country. You have helped maintain the security of the nation during a critical time in its history with a devotion to duty and a spirit of sacrifice in keeping with the proud tradition of our forefathers.

    I trust that in the coming years you will continue to maintain an active interest in serving our Great Nation and her citizens.

    My best wishes to you for happiness and success in the future.

    Barack Obama, Commander in Chief

  2. R B says:

    Brian, great news! I was able to book us on a flight immediately after your award ceremony! That’s right- we’re going to California! Disneyland! You are going to be the grand marshal of the Main Street America 4th of July parade and you will also be the guest of honor at the Nations of the World fireworks celebration! It’s really quite an honor and it’s the first time they will have a double Congressional Medal of Honor and Presidential Medal of Freedom winner. In fact, when Nancy Reagan heard about it, she insisted that she be able to meet you and offer her personal congratulations on behalf of the state of California.

    We’ve also had inquiries from the mayor of Hollywood and Pasadena (his actual works were: “Brian Hughes? THAT Brian Hughes?”) and Las Vegas. We’re ironing out the details of that. Let’s just say get ready to have your hands in concrete, Brian!There’s an empty space right at Gramauns next to Chuck Yeager and I’m pretty sure that’s where your hand prints will go. Pasadena will be more pomp and circumstance and they won’t release a lot details yet, but I’m almost positive that Bruce Springsteen will be in attendance and possibly 3 of the four living presidents will be there as well.

    How do you feel about NASCAR? It’s quite possible that you could also snag the Grand Marshal spot at the final race of the season at the Miami – Homestead Speedway and you will be able to present the Sprint Cup winners trophy at the end of the year awards banquet.

    This thing is really taking off and is just further proof of how you, Brian Hughes, are revered in contemporary American society. You might possibly be talked about for generations. Brian Hughes. One of the greatest American heroes of our times and I can’t even believe that I can be part of this.

    Brian Hughes, this is such an unbelievable time for all of us Americans and the role models for the rest of the planet. I think it’s only a springboard to the rest of you life. Great things await us Brian Hughes and the future is being written by you.

  3. Brian Hughes says:

    No, thank YOU, you monumental troll. I’ve been looking for a new example to demonstrate what trolling is, and you’ve managed to become the new poster child, sitting in mommy’s basement (that hopefully has room for your 50-75 imaginary friends) congratulating yourself on being just so danged smart, after demonstrating repeatedly your utter ignorance of the issues involved.

    Love to stay and play, Skippy, but I’ll leave you with one more item to ponder (have one of your friends with functioning neurons explain it to you): Nowhere in the above comments have I said anything as to whether or not I agree with the hospital’s policy, the state of Missouri’s law, the regulations involved, or the events that happened. I was providing factual information as to the way things ARE, not how they ‘should’ be nor how I personally want them to be. To put this in terms you just might be able to understand (with the assistance of a five year old or anyone else smarter than you): Suppose while you’re at work saying “Hi, welcome to Wal-mart,” someone asks you where the automotive section is located. You tell them it’s to their right, and a passerby overhears and informs you that no, it’s actually in the other direction. Incensed that anyone would DARE disagree with the all-knowing and gosh-darned smarterific RBtroll, you immediately jump to the conslusion that the passerby has a politically motivated agenda to prevent the equal rights of automobile owners to shop at Wal-mart, you go to great lengths to avoid the question of the true direction of said department, and you procede to make an absolute fool of yourself spewing nonsense that your equally dim-witted acquaintances fawn over and rush to give you group hugs, high fives, and pats on the back for so cleverly dispatching the evil interloper.

    None of which changes, of course, the fact that you were wrong. Maybe – just maybe – if whiny little entitlement-generation trolls like you stopped feigning pseudo-intellectualism and actually took the time to educate yourselves about the real issues, you might be able to make some progress at achieving your goals. But hey, stay in the mode of being an ignorant troll and getting nowhere, and convincing yourself that you’re being unfairly treated. You won’t accomplish a damned thing (not that it matters, as that was never your goal), but you’re good for a lot more laughs. Oh, and just to be clear, Skippy: I’m laughing AT you, not with you.

  4. R B says:

    Dear Brian Hughes:

    After my encounters here with you, I’ve had an epiphany. Almost like the voice of God (oddly, sounded like Rush Limbaugh…) speaking to me. I now realize that my mission in life is to honor your patriotism and sacrifice as an American hero.

    I hope you’re sitting down for this part…I’ve submitted nominations for you to receive both a Congressional Medal of Honor and a Presidential Medal of Freedom. I know you are probably speechless, but it was meant to be. This, Brian Hughes, is your destiny. You will finally be acknowledged as a Patriot and your name will forever be inscribed on the List with the Great Ones.

    I just need a few pieces of information. Please begin your search for a suitable venue for the award ceremony in your local community I would suggest something that can accommodate 50 – 75 people and two news teams with cameras and satellite up link trucks. You are responsible for obtaining any required permits and paying any fees. Please post the address of the venue as soon as possible and your desired date for the ceremony so I may send the info to the caterer. If you would like a celebrity or media star to speak at your ceremony, that can be arranged. However, the presentation will normally be conducted by your local public officials and your party affiliation Representative or Senator. A member of the pastoral community is optional but is strongly encouraged.

    Since your name will be inscribed on a granite block and placed at the visitor center of the national park of your choice, I will need a FAX number to which the proof of the engraving can be sent for your review and approval. At that time you can also select your national park and there will be a section on the form for you to write that in before you FAX it back.

    Finally, I need to know what color choice you would prefer for the faux velvet lining of the award presentation boxes. Your choices are “Blood of the Saints Red” or “Purity of the Races White” or “Sacrifice of the Patriots Blue” or “Rights of the People Realtree Camo”. Please let me know your choices as soon as possible because I’ve already received three emails from the awards committee about this. They are getting antsy since Flag Day is coming up soon and this is their busy season.

    Congratulations, Brian Hughes. I hope you are as excited about this as I am. This is truly a remarkable time in our history and its about time that exceptional citizens like you are recognized for your contributions. Our nation needs more people like you, Brian Hughes, to light the way in our darkness and to calm the waters of our roiled seas.

    Thank you, Brian Hughes, thank you.

  5. Brian Hughes says:

    A simple “I’m an a**hat that doesn’t really know what I’m talking about but just like trolling internet message boards” would have sufficed, RB, but thanks for demonstrating instead. And also for proving my point. Come back when you have some knowledge of the subject matter, some facts on your side, and the reasoning ability required to get out of kindergarten.

    By the way, Skippy, if YOU’RE presenting yourself as part of the fabric of this society, you can forget about anything close to resembling a great nation. Putz.

  6. R B says:

    Brian Hughes, you are a true patriot and a blessing for us that you are part of the fabric that makes this great nation.

  7. Brian Hughes says:

    I’m relating what I know from my personal experience in this area. What is it that qualifies you as an authority, again?

    I was as polite as could be in pointing out the errors in your posts, and your sarcasm only serves to illustrate my point that the people blaming the hospital are doing so based on emotion and opinion, not facts.

  8. R B says:

    Good for you Brain Hughes and your outstanding grasp on the facts, good for you.

  9. Brian Hughes says:

    Other than what I said about if my wife was in need of psychiatric intervention, everything I said in my comment (about POA’s and medical records) post was factual, not opinion. That is the problem with this issue, too many people are basing their outrage on opinion without understanding the facts.

  10. R B says:

    You are entitled to you opinions. Thanks for sharing.

  11. Brian Hughes says:

    Actually, you’re wrong about medical powers-of-attorney not being time limited – most of them are. Contrary to popular belief, the bulk of medical POA’s are for short-term purposes. I filled one out last summer when my daughter spent a few weeks with her grandparents in another state. People fill them out all the time for NON-FAMILIAL caregivers including daycare workers.

    The rules for mental health records are different than they are for med-surge. For purposes of HIPPA and other federal regulations, it is indeed possible that separate units within the same hospital, even in the same building, are considered discreet organizational unit for purposes of confidentiality. Case in point: In the last psychiatric hospital where I worked (in the same city as this incident, BTW), we had a husband and wife both admitted at the same time to different units. I sat on the treatment teams for both, and the attending psychiatrist for the wife asked me about some lab results for the husband, and was somewhat irritated when I had to tell him that under federal law I couldn’t answer that question without a signed consent from the husband.

    And BTW, I would HOPE you realize that there are somewhat different rules governing psychiatric patient privacy and records safeguarding than there are for banking.

    “It’s not up to the hospital to make the determination if the POA has been changed.”

    It’s not up to them to establish that one exists, either. It’s up to the person holding the POA to prove. You, as well as some commenters here, have tried to make the point that the patient himself verified the POA was in force – without being able to recognize the rather obvious Catch-22 involved. A POA is only valid when the patient is deemed incompetent and unable to make his own decisions – therefore, by definition, the patient is the ONLY person who can NOT verify the existence of a valid POA, since the only times when one applies they are incapable of certifying to its validity.

    “In fact, if you have a wife, I would assume that you wouldn’t want
    someone coming to your house and dragging her off to the hospital
    without your consent or calling 911 and making spurious claims about her
    medical and mental states?”

    If I had a wife in need of suicide intervention than I would want her in the hands of professionals treating her without any unnecessary or unwarranted delays. I reiterate what I said in the last paragraph of my post: It was the police who made the determination that the patient was in need of psychiatric intervention, and obviously, from the admittance, the hospital concurred. It is NOT up to a spouse or significant other to make that determination. If I were to come home and find the police escorting my wife to the emergency room for risk of self harm, even though I’m a licensed professional, I couldn’t stop them (and would lose my license if I attempted to, and rightly so). It DOESN’T MATTER who called the police, it was the police and then the hospital’s call to make.

  12. Brian Hughes says:

    Well, let’s see, I’m a mental health professional that worked for five years in acute-care psych in the same city where this happened. And your own credentials for your fascinating – and completely wrong – opinion of the obligations of a person named as POA are – what, again, Skippy?

  13. EdA says:

    Hello, Geoff,

    Actually, I DO understand your point — I really do. People can’t just have themselves added to, or taken off, mortgages or deeds just on their say-so that they are a spouse.

    But the issue actually is — can the staff of a hospital receiving federal funds ignore the federal regulations regarding the requirement that the hospital recognize the person designated by the patient, regardless of whether there is written documentation? And the Federal regulation specifically states that somebody doesn’t have to be a spouse to be given that recognition.

  14. Geoff Hinkle says:

    First, you missed my point. These two men are not recognized as being married in Missouri. What occurred, by the law, isn’t an individual claiming to make medical decisions for their spouse. Under Missouri law, without the Power of Attorney, what happened is the same as me claiming to make medical decisions for you. Regardless of how they feel about each other, or what they might be considered elsewhere, under Missouri Law, they do not automatically have any rights that are extended to heterosexual married couples. It doesn’t matter if they are legally married under any other state or country law, Missouri defines marriage as between a man and a woman in the state constitution, and therefore by law these two gentlemen are not considered married in the state of Missouri. Period. I know, I’m a Missouri resident and voted against the amendment that made that definition.

    I’ve also working in an industry that accepted Powers of Attorney to make financial decisions, and there since not all POA documentation is the same or are eternal, everyone requires the Attorney-in-Fact (what the designee of a POA is called) to produce current, unexpired, paperwork every time.

    Look, I *WANT* Missouri to consider them married. I *want* them to have the same right as I do as a strait man. The fact of the matter is that, in the legal sense of the term, they are not married under the Law in Missouri. By saying over and over again that they are “married” means absolutely nothing to the Hospital in the legal sense of the term.

  15. MasonMcD says:

    As an RN who has worked with security before, I am almost certain all parties other than the patient were asked to leave the room. RNs do not tolerate yelling in a patient room. I believe neither of them were complying, so security was called. When they arrived, you can’t get both to walk out at the same time, so I suspect they focused on one party at a time. The first probably just happened to be the husband. Maybe he was still yelling, maybe he was closer to the patient and security saw him as a greater threat to safety. We weren’t there, or in the minds of the RN or security personnel. Regardless, he chose to ignore security and grab the bed. At this point, security is likely busy dealing with the husband, and doesn’t have time/space/personnel to deal with the brother. To a bystander, it may look like they were discriminating or picking one side over another. Probably not the case.

  16. I don’t really get where anyone is asking for special treatment in this story. I’m pretty sure he’s just asking to be treated the same as any heterosexual…

  17. Sure, if I were the cop and was called in to remove anyone making a ruckus, I would have made the non-bigoted choice and thrown everyone out who was disturbing the peaceful environment of the hospital, but only one person was arrested—the gay man. It’s not about what you or I would have done, it’s about what actually happened! That’s the whole point of these continued arguments!

  18. Apparently though, both men were belligerent, yet only Roger was asked to leave, allegedly because he could not produce the Power of Attorney. The heterosexual brother, also belligerent, was not asked to leave, and was not asked to produce proof of entitlement to be there. Allen meanwhile was incoherent and so couldn’t corroborate Roger’s spousal visitation entitlement.

  19. MasonMcD says:

    ” If someone is belligerent in the hospital, draw them away from the scene into a more isolated area. Listen to both sides of the story, not just the one being shouted at them, no matter which side is shouting the louder.”

    I think they tried that, and Roger grabbed the hospital bed.

  20. zerosumgame0005 says:

    you sure do seem to be an expert at mastur-beating

  21. Fatty Patty Lew says:

    Yeah, if you want to give money to a spouse beater.

  22. R B says:

    Good for you, Bob Ho.

  23. EdA says:

    So you seriously believe that more often than not, hospitals in Misery insist that people who claim to be the spouse of a patient in a hospital are required to produce a written health care proxy/power of attorney?

  24. Bob Ho says:

    against her will? where do you reed that. Any intelligence would tell you the guy was unconscious or he could have told them who was who/

    Number two, you would let somebody die at home while waiting for there mate to come home? really smart you are.

    Lastly, you assume I am not gay because I disagree with you,. you are a bigot too. You can be

    a Nazi and its all just fine, cause your gay?

    It’s all about how gays do not have to follow the LAW because they are
    gay. pretty simple fact, but when your are gay, it doesn’t mater.

  25. MyrddinWilt says:

    Funny how when things hit the legal department the lawyers start to ask questions like ‘just how much is the hospital gonna get sued for here?’

    I suspect that the person who threatened to get the restraining order had not cleared it with legal first. Then when they did, questions start to be asked that should have been asked at the start.

    Lawyers tend not to want to get up in front of a judge and get asked questions they don’t know the answer to and they certainly don’t like going back to explain why the statements they made when they asked for an ex-parte injunction turn out to have been untrue.

  26. karmanot says:

    You go Miss Fit.

  27. karmanot says:

    Yes, check out story connection at adgitadiaries, which links here and expands story.

  28. R B says:

    Unfortunately for bigots in the state of Misery who caused that disgusting law, On April 15, 2010 President Obama issued a memorandum concerning hospital visitation in federaly funded hospitals. Among other things, sexual orientation was covered. As a result CMS updated the Medicare Conditions of Participation on January 16, 2011. Paperwork isn’t required and the hospital must recognize whoever the patient chooses.

    You also display a shocking lack of knowledge about POAs and medical records upkeep. Please educate yourself and you may be surprised.

  29. Geoff Hinkle says:

    Regardless of how I feel about the subject, Missouri has a constitutional amendment that defines marriage as a man and a woman AND since anyone can SAY they have a POA, everyone requires proof of it, every time.

  30. R B says:

    YOU can help Roger with his legal fees and fines….his daughter set up a Go Fund Me page….

  31. EdA says:

    Updated video is on Towle Road:

  32. R B says:

    I love someone who can work a Newt Gingrich dig into polite discourse. Bravo.


  33. EdA says:

    Leaving aside the fact that a written power of attorney is NOT required and the likelihood that Roger would probably have been listed as next-of-kin on available hospital records anyhow, plus the patient/victim’s own statement, one pretty obvious tip-off that the couple was a couple was that they were living in the same house.and that his adult step-daughter had familiarity with her step-father’s health information.

    With respect to a purely speculative notion that maybe a power of attorney had been revoked, (a) you’re just being silly, (b) if this were the case, then rationally one would expect his brother, who lives in a different state and whom no one at the hospital had ever seen before, WOULD have had a written replacement power of attorney. I assume that your wife, if any, has a copy of your health care proxy in her purse and a copy of your most recent tax return to help document that you haven’t been divorced? After all, Newt Gingrich has had three wives, and for all anyone knows, none of them may have health care proxies signed this week.

    Based on the irrationality of your posting, should we call the police where you live and ask if they check you out as a candidate for being committed?

  34. R B says:

    Great points Brian, but although the “paperwork” has become a focal point, the updated CMS Medicare Conditions of Participation for federally funded hospitals (as of 1/6/11) state that this type of paperwork isn’t actually required. IMO, All of these statements are just smokescreens by the hospital. In fact, CMS is actually investigating them now for this issue.

    Again, the hospital says they’ve been recognizing domestic partnerships since 2005, yet they didn’t recognize this one nor that both parties said their current POA was on file and hadn’t changed.

    Lots of people in the medical field have been posting here and like myself all agree that since these facilities were part of the same system, these records should have been available electronically. Even my bank does this. I’m the POA on my mother’s account. I can go into any branch nationwide and when they pull up the screen on the computer, there’s her name and then another line for POA along with my name. Wouldn’t you expect the hospital of all places, where the POA could be making a life or death decision, to have as much or more due diligence over this?

    Finally, a DHCPOA is considered in force until it’s been rescinded or another one with a subsequent execution date is presented. (I suppose someone could issue one for a certain period of time, but really that would be counter productive and tedious, especially if the reason for the POA in the first place exceeded it’s time frame.) It’s not up to the hospital to make the determination if the POA has been changed. They honor the one they have – PERIOD.

  35. R B says:

    Yes, but just don’t call me the “roommate” or the “friend” ….. NO.

  36. R B says:

    I’m on the fence about this. I understand the need to emphasize and I defended this in another comment, but we generally don’t use “Gay Bob” or “Straight Susan” in regular conversation either. In fact, if someone introduced me like that, I would probably have to take a moment with them for a sidebar. Probably would have been best to stick to common style and usage guidelines and referred to him as Roger Gorley once and then Gorley thereafter.

    I’m also of the decade where we use partner or spouse with no problem. We’re not married as it’s illegal in our state, so saying husband seems incorrect. Either way, I appreciate your reporting and getting this story out there.

  37. R B says:

    Can you post links?

  38. Joshowa18 says:

    I just did a google search and, beside this case, immediately found at least 2 other cases of assault on a patient at this “hospital.”

  39. Brian Hughes says:

    “But then the hospital claims, in the same statement, that Roger was
    kicked out because he couldn’t prove that he had the medical power of
    attorney for his partner, Allen, which he says he has. (Didn’t the
    hospital have this in its files?)”

    And if you could see past your desire to make this about “gay Roger”, MAYBE you’d be able to understand he was told to leave the room because he didn’t have the POA, and that he GOT disruptive because he was told to leave. Is that too much for you to follow?

    Oh, and by the way, whether the hospital had it “in their files” or not is irrelevant. First of all, the ER staff might not have access to the psych unit’s records. Second, the file copy isn’t usable as it’s entirely possible it had been revoked since the last admission. Third and most importantly, IT’S NOT THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO PRODUCE THE DOCUMENT, it’s “gay Roger’s”.

    BTW, for all the legal experts that think the brother had no right to ‘have his brother committed’, it wasn’t the brother that had him committed. ANYONE can call the police and ask them to check on ANYONE, you can call them to check on your neighbor or on a total stranger you see acting strangely on a public sidewalk. The POLICE made the decision to bring the man to the hospital and the HOSPITAL makes the decision whether or not to commit based on medical criteria.

  40. George Melby says:

    Lee would probably be the first one in Allen’s wife’s pants!!! (I’ve met those kinds of people!).

  41. George Melby says:

    ROFLMBO x 20! JELLO CHEF????? Oh Lord, it hurts to laugh this hard!

  42. George Melby says:

    And if you look hard enough, you can find a number of turd sandwiches at that hospital! They breeeed!!!!

  43. George Melby says:

    ROFLMBO!!! More than likely, CA health authorities/law enforcement don’t know the difference! Sad case! Funny!

  44. George Melby says:

    One never does know whether that thought was scurrying around in their little brains at the time!

  45. George Melby says:

    And we are surprised? LOLOL. Ohhhhhhh Myyyyyy! Yes, this DOES get funnier the longer I read these comments.

  46. George Melby says:

    Heh heh heh… thanks for the giggle!

  47. George Melby says:

    Unfortunately, the KCPD have a disturbing ability to cost the City a LOT of money in lawsuits. Even though most KC Policemen/women are upright and honest, the bad ones give the impression that they don’t comprehend what they read very well… IF they can read at all. So, another round or two, or three of lawsuits will occur , mucho bucks will leave the city’s bank accounts (and/or their liability insurance companies’ bank accounts), and we’ll wait in earnest for the next ‘boys in blue’ faux pas. (sighhhhh).

  48. George Melby says:

    Yes, I am amazed also. A dedicated reader here. I never thought I’d see RMC’s name in internet neon lights, but here they are! Lolol. Couldn’t happen to a more disgusting hospital!

  49. George Melby says:

    mmmmmmmmm… probably not. Bigggg surprise??? LOLOL.

  50. George Melby says:

    YOU…are spot on the mark! Some of RMC’s employees (some!) are not the brightest street lamps on the Boulevard!

  51. George Melby says:

    I do so hope RMC-HCA is getting a giggle out of my posts (Real-time relationship way back when… remember? James, Charles, et al???)

  52. George Melby says:

    You really aren’t a well person, are you? You would be a most welcome guest at Research Psychiatric Center. Check it out!

  53. George Melby says:

    Excellent coverage and story!! Truth and Justice took a swipe at this hospital and completely missed! It helps to have some inside knowledge of this hospital. They have trouble with the facts, witness their multiple changes in what ‘really’ happened. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in legal terms… IF RMC-HCA allows it to get that far. $$$$$$$ speaks loudly!!! In my humble opinion, of course.
    Dakotahgeo, M.Div. Pastor/Chaplain

  54. Charlie Chaplin says:

    Glad this story is being told.

  55. R B says:

    Isn’t Governor Rick Scott somewhere in the history too?

  56. R B says:

    But yet that only happened to the gay guy. Hmmmm. Just a coincidence, no doubt.

  57. Bob Ho says:

    so if someone just shows up and say “I have a MPOA”, the hospital should just know they are telling the truth? Not going to happen, nor should it. If you are a screaming loon in a hospital and wont shut up, you deserve to be arrested, gay or not. Even with an MPOA, if he had not kept quiet he would still have been arrested. You have no right to disturb all the sick people in the hospital because you and your family are having a hissy fit, again, gay or not. In fact, if you cause enough stress to cause anther patient to stroke out, you could be sued, gay or not.

    You want to make this about anti-gay hospital, I say it is about inconsiderate loud mouth family.

  58. BeccaM says:

    Allen was treated regularly at that hospital, and it was on file in his chart there.

  59. BeccaM says:

    The nurse clearly exacerbated the matter, but if there’s a real ‘troublemaker’ to identified, it’s Lee Mansell — Allen’s brother — who had him hospitalized against his will, and who then tried to deny Allen’s husband Roger both visitation and the right to make medical decisions, in direct violation of the power-of-attorney and medical directives Allen had signed and on-file at the hospital.

  60. EdA says:

    This is somewhat of an irrelevant red herring, but the very much for-profit Research Medical Center is owned by Hospital Corporation of America, which is owned in large part by Bain Capital. The chain was started by and still managed by the Frist family, whose best known member is former Senate MAjority Leader Bill Frist, who notoriously diagnosed the nature and prognosis of Terry Schiavo’s coma via an old video and, I think, telepathy.

  61. BeccaM says:

    BTW, the original account from Amanda Brown, Roger Gorley’s daughter, as posted on the WeAreAtheism website is finally back up. (I suspect the server went down due to the heavy traffic.)

    ThinkProgress also has a good thumbnail summary:

    If anything, the series of events is far more offensive than some accounts have described.

  62. R B says:

    As well as a line on the electronic chart, just like there is a line for Name, DOB, etc, that indicated a POA was on file and listed the name of the designee. For Christ sakes, they have that notation on the computer at my bank. I would certainly hope that RMC / HCA is just as current!

  63. wiseoldsnail says:

    the whole article is addressing the issue of discrimination based on sexual orientation. maybe you missed that.

  64. George Melby says:

    Probably the best written comment on the blog here. Research Med Center is certainly a lighthouse with no discernible beacon helping others! Thank you, Rob!

  65. R B says:

    Hun, the crux of this story (as you know) is the glaring and consistent fact this happened because they are gay. It’s important to emphasize that fact because these things simply just don’t happen to straight people. It’s great that you get it, but with all male names the story is confusing and for many out there in the mainstream it’s probably their first exposure to something like this. John’s coverage has been excellent, straight forward and picked up many details that mainstream media was ignoring. Let’s give him a pass shall we and use our energy to fight the real enemy.

  66. George Melby says:

    RMC just continues to hang itself with shorter and thicker rope. Such a shame!

  67. George Melby says:

    Lolol… West-burro BaPtist Church (not)!) is in Topeka, KS, a bit too far from KCMO, but she could conceivably be a Board member wannabe and win a seat on it.

  68. George Melby says:

    Keep it up, RMC… you will be minus buco bucks and much less federal aid when all is said and done. Not to mention a continuing tarnished reputation you’ve worked for and richly deserve, HRC!

  69. Think Progress Story has an update: w/ video NBC41 caught up with both Roger and Lee, Allen’s brother. Lee basically admitted that he intentionally tried to intervene in Allen’s medical care and also insisted that Roger should have been the one to leave the hospital room, even though he’s the one with Allen’s power of attorney. Nothing in this interview contradicts Amanda Brown’s account of the incident, and it remains unclear why Lee called 911 to have Allen admitted in the first place

  70. Dana Pille says:

    The more I read about this, the more I think that the nurse was the real troublemaker here. If she had, as stated by Amanda, seen and treated these two gentlemen before, she KNEW that facts of the case. Its sounds to me like she was just being a grumpy (not my first choice of words) nurse wanting to cause trouble and express HER disapproval. Has anyone checked to see if she goes to Westboro?

  71. Deb Furlin says:

    Thanks for the info.

  72. Dr. Brent Zenobia says:

    Yes, there are many patient-directive situations that the hospital is required to keep track of via electronic records. For example, you can specify that your bills are sent to a PO box instead of a physical address (perhaps to keep them away from unauthorized parties who would otherwise open your mail.) If the provider or payer screws up and sends them to the wrong place, they can be fined by CMS for every instance. Typically that’s how CMS handles this sort of thing, to fine the provider for every violation – but in situations like this where the violation is serious, CMS has much bigger weapons than fines in their arsenal.

  73. Dr. Brent Zenobia says:

    I work with the CMS on a daily basis. All provider and payer employees who are involved with Medicare are required to complete mandatory training once a year to ensure that they understand CMS regulations that are pertinent to their jobs. The hospital is required to certify with CMS that its employees have received this training. Any employee who has been trained – but subsequently violates the regulations – carries personal liability in addition to any legal liability the hospital incurs. The hospital at risk for heavy fines, but probably not revocation of its Medicaid/Medicare contracts since that generally requires a history of repeated egregious violations. CMS has a lot of latitude at its disposal, and oftentimes you don’t know exactly what the range of its available reponses are. But certainly the nurse can also be fined, and fired, and sued by Gorey, and sued by the hospital.

  74. lynne says:

    What is wrong with the author that he has to label people “gay Roger” and straight Lee” ? Is he stupid ? homophobic? does he presume we are? People learned to read in the first grade and it’s not real hard to follow the thread of the story. Don’t insult your reader because you don’t get it !!!

  75. R B says:

    The links didn’t work? Odd. Sorry.

  76. R B says:

    I don’t know why.

  77. JamesR says:

    Thanks – though not all those links worked as they got posted here, – a lesson of this is not only do domestic partners need documentation such as living wills, advanced healthcare directives, Power(s) of Attorney documents but also anyone / everyone really – who has family – to determine the hierarchy of who would be on charge should you become incapacitated.

    Sure legal marriage fixes most of that for the spouse, but say both spouses get in an accident – what then?? Who would decide, who would know what you would have wanted?? An ounce of prevention is worth more than a black hole of cure. ‘Family’ members sometimes go apeshit over illness and especially that involving potential dispersion of assets. Apeshit. Even within the ‘normal’ heterosexual familial context. Cousins can even get involved, don’t ask me how I know.

    One can’t have too much legal protection for one’s family. Yet one can have too little, the much more common occurrence. It won’t save you from rogue nurses and the initial response form an uncaring evil for-profit beneficiary of the pain and suffering and illness (not health) of the patient corporate health institution, but it WILL save you in the long run, the second round, the legal settlement and the happier ever after, if you all survive round one of course…

  78. JamesR says:

    Manual “like”

  79. JamesR says:

    Kinda sad but fucking True.

  80. JamesR says:

    Seconded your comment above, would “like” your comment but can’t because of some Disqus phenomenon local to this site.

  81. JamesR says:

    YES – seconding Robs’s NOLO endorsement – NOLO POA forms saved my ass, and my mom and dad’s ass when I needed to have them and edited them and printed them and got them signed and notarized – they don’t look nice but they’re legally bulletproof – such can be crafted between any familial relationship. If you can read the legal fine print and understand, and have need, DIY IS possible. – I would investigate the forms necessary for a divorce, of you live in a State where that’s easy, and meanwhile craft the necessary POA forms ASAP. If you make them and don’t need them, no harm no foul nobody has to see them etc. If you don’t make them and need them you’ll be in a world of hurt with no recourse.

  82. JamesR says:


    (in context)

  83. Hateful barbaric actions. Why is it some people take delight in destorying other people.

  84. Tony Hicks says:

    I reread part of the RMC new statement

    ‘……However, HCA said Gorley did not present proof of “power of attorney” during that particular visit……’ to me that implies that he has presented the ‘PoA’ on other occasions.

  85. R B says:

    Don’t forget about OuyevolituB. He’s one of the Jello chefs as well.

  86. R B says:

    When I had to deal with my grandfather’s estate, I had a distant cousin show up at the house at 10:30 pm and ask me for the refrigerator. The fucking refrigerator of all things. SMH.

  87. R B says:

    CERTIFIED copies.

  88. DetroitSam says:

    Also, too, Roberts was appointed Chief Justice due to his actions in subverting the 2000 presidential election.

  89. benb says:

    Nothing but getting a big chunk of money out of the city and the hospital is going to bring the police or the nursing staff up to speed. I hope Roger Gorley gets a restraining order against the brother of his husband, too.

  90. BeccaM says:


  91. Elfangel says:

    Great idea!

  92. acornwebworks says:

    I agree completely! But that still doesn’t change *my* point :-)

  93. Beth Bedford says:

    Have it laminated or a nice frame would be a lovely touch. :) Best wishes on your mans kneecap.

  94. Rob Montague says:

    Oh, you’re being too nice, John. Especially now that we know it was the evil brother Lee who a) had Allen taken unwillingly to the hospital in the first place and b) then tried to get Roger cut out of the picture. We also know from Amanda that Lee objected to his brother’s relationship and, being a cop himself, Lee seems to have been exploiting his own legal background to try to muscle Roger out of Allen’s life. It would be grim, but maybe Allen and Roger should sue Lee, too, for interfering in their marriage.

  95. Rob Montague says:

    I like “spouse” better, most of the time. Unfortunately, when you say “husband” too many people assume (mainly out of ignorance) that you must be the “wife!” “Spouse” is gender-neutral and it doesn’t have the role implications the words “husband” and “wife” have.

  96. Rob Montague says:

    Adam, go to the library and see if there’s a NoLo Press book on do-it-yourself divorce. California has no-fault divorce and it sounds like you and your ex are on good terms so if nothing is actually being contested you may be able to do this yourself for minimal expense. You both will just have to be really clear about your agreement on what will happen to jointly owned assets, etc., before filing.

  97. Rob Montague says:

    Also, INSIST that the hospital put a physical or scanned copy into its records and that it be marked on your husband’s chart.

  98. Rob Montague says:

    Well, RMC has now given the patient and his spouse a cause of action against the City of Kansas City along with all the other ones. The K.C.P.D. obviously mishandled the case by not determining what was going on first and falsely arresting the patient’s husband. They also violated the city’s own non-discrimination ordinance. With all the violations and outrage I’m seeing a nine-figure claim coming. And Kansas City juries are notoriously generous!

  99. Robert says:

    No, but only asking the gay spouse to prove that he had a right to be there and not the straight brother proves that the hospital staff refused to recognize hospital visitation rights of same sex couples.

  100. Rob Montague says:

    Excellent question. I’m in a similar situation to yours, and I know I’d be out of my mind if my own husband were dragged away despite my insistence that he be with me and be able to make medical decisions for me when I’m unable to do so for myself. (And that’s very possible in this case, as the patient probably was going to have another ECT treatment, which requires anesthesia.) How did RMC plan to have the patient’s spouse make medical decisions for the patients in this case? By having to call the hospital collect from jail?

  101. Rob Montague says:

    John, medical records at HCA hospitals are pretty much computerized these days. Allen had been treated numerous times at RMC (and even had the same nurse on those occasions). Therefore, the power of attorney would already have been scanned into Allen’s medical records at RMC and should have been part of his chart. All the nurse needed to do was check the computer (and these days HCA hospitals have terminals in all the rooms). So the doo-doo grows deeper. Also, another person posted a copy of the hospital’s non-discrimination policy (on the hospital’s own letterhead) and it doesn’t include any protections based on sexual orientation or gender identity. So the hospital evidently has lied about that, also. In addition to the Medicare/Medicaid regs and the POA, Kansas City, where the hospital is located, has an anti-discrimination ordinance that covers the situation. So there’s more trouble for RMC.

    Also, according to his eyewitness daughter-in-law, Allen was hospitalized because of symptoms of deep, treatment-resistant depression. I would argue that the hospital committed malpractice and discriminated against him on the basis of his disability by instigating this horrible scenario. There is no way that Allen’s condition wasn’t aggravated by witnessing his husband (who he wanted in the room and who had his POA) battered, handcuffed, falsely arrested and led away by the hospital security guards and the K.C.P.D. If Allen wasn’t suicidal before this happened, he’s very likely to have been after RMC precipitated this fiasco. So I see additional liability both for RMC and the City of Kansas City, which RMC dragged into the situation but which should have backed off when the facts were explained to the police.

    I live in Kansas City and it is not, on the whole, a homophobic city. In fact, it has a large, vibrant LGBT community; a long and rich LGBT history stretching back to the 1800s, when it was a rowdy frontier town crawling with randy cowboys and farmhands; and a totally live-and-let-live attitude during the “anything goes” era of Prohibition, when K.C. was a wide-open town where the jazz, sin and liquor flowed freely. Even in the moralistic 50s and 60s Kansas City had a thriving gay bar scene when similar places in New York and San Francisco suffered constant police harassment. But unfortunately, like every other town, we have our share of ignorant, bigoted people, too. And Redneck Medical Center has made itself the poster hospital for that crowd, giving the entire metro area an ugly black eye in the process.

  102. Kristen Wear says:

    Sounds like they should get a restraining order against Lee too. All that greed of his, who knows what all he may do or intended to do.

  103. Alex Guenser says:

    Recently? I went back and forth with him on the hospitals Facebook page, then left a lot of comments on the fox story I hadn’t heard back from. I think he’s shut up as he’s realized more and more how wrong this is, and unfortunately for him got cast as the spokesperson. And did a shitty job.

  104. karmanot says:

    That nurse, who remains unnamed, may go by the roman de clef of ‘Fatty Patty Lew’ on the other posts. Her virulent pro hospital, anti gay position is suspicious. Quite a nasty little clot of the hospital’s employees have weighed in on this, including one named ‘turd sandwich,’ who works in the cafeteria. What a drama! Haven’t had this much fun troll hunting in months!

  105. EdHandy says:

    I would not bet on “And had Roger and Allen been married for “real,” this would have never happened.” Ignorant and discriminatory behavior against LGBT couples isn’t going to end just because they have state-sanctioned marriages. It will happen less, and it will give very important additional legal protections when these things do happen, but it’s only the next step in a long road.

  106. Adam says:

    This is one of the things that I live in terror about. I’m one half of one of the original 18K couples in California. Our marriage didn’t work out, but we haven’t been able to afford the divorce, and meantime both I and my new partner and my ex and his new partner are in this situation. In my case, it’s my new partner’s family that is homophobic, and in my ex’s case, it’s his family. My ex and I had (and technically still do have) legal protections, but my current partner and I do not. Not only that – we can’t, not until my divorce happens, and that’s not going to happen any time soon because of money. We’re not sure what to do.

  107. Butch1 says:

    Make copies of it.

  108. Bryan says:

    Yes, yes, yes! Honorific!
    I’ve heard Partner called “clinical” but I don’t see it that dryly. It definitely sounds more dignified than other words.
    Husband is, of course, awesomer– where you can get it.

  109. Zorba says:

    Money, money, money. After all, John, “money makes the world go around.”
    The gay partner aspect must just make brother Lee believe that he is not only “righteous” in trying to marginalize Roger, but he is looking to get control of Allen’s money.
    Lee is an incredible douche-canoe.

  110. 2patricius2 says:

    And of course there there were the parents, and religious characters, and Frist, and the Republican president and Congress gathering to pass a law to try to interfere with Terry Schiavo’s husband’s attempts to remove life supports from his wife in accordance with her wishes. I had medical directives drafted by my lawyer and gave them to my siblings and the two people I had determined to have medical power of attorney, instructing them not to do the same to me. But as I said to my family members, I doubted that the president and Congress would meet in special session to prolong the life of a gay man.

  111. Zorba says:

    Unfortunately, you may well be correct, Elf. After all this is Missouri we’re talking about, home of former Representative Todd Akin, he of the opinion that “legitimate rape victims rarely get pregnant” because women’s bodies have ways to “try to shut that whole thing down.” :-(

  112. Chuck Turner says:

    How is the patient; is he getting the proper care for his mental state. I’m a chronic depressive/bi-polar and on meds, too. If I were he, I would be a freaking mess about now!

  113. acornwebworks says:

    Sorry, John, but power of attorney for medical decisions does *not* prove anyone is a spouse. Good grief…that would mean I’m married to my mother!! (Yuck :-)

  114. Elfangel says:

    ALL of Baby Bush’s appointees are.

  115. Elfangel says:

    Exactly. At least now Roger and Allen can sue Lee and put it on record that Lee is NOT the legal representative for Allen in any way. It’ll be part of the public record.

  116. Elfangel says:

    He probably would have. People like Lee also don’t trust a woman to know what’s right. “Let big, responsible brother Lee take care of this. You are too emotional to know what’s right to do.”

  117. R B says:

    Even though the POA requirements vary from state to state, the federal CMS Medicare Conditions of Participation for all federally funded hospitals and their patients don’t vary. This hospital appears to have violated (or ignored) the 1/16/11 CMS update to those rules.

  118. guitargodkc says:

    Lets not forget this is our buddy Gov. Rock Scott’s old fun house!

  119. Indigo says:

    Beep! Beep! Beep! said the hospital, backing up like a truck.

  120. karmanot says:

    It is absolutely imperative, whenever possible, for patients to have outside and informed advocates to overlook and observe patient care, because hospitals are ultimately motivated by corporate liability concerns and advocates run by issues of medical professionalism and the details of care.

  121. BeccaM says:

    No, he didn’t. And as a consequence, Roger is not going to barred from being with his husband AND he has solid grounds for a whole slew of lawsuits and injunctions.

    Don’t you get it? No paperwork = No legal rights whatsoever. Paperwork = The ability to seek legal redress. Just because the paperwork didn’t stop something bad from happening in the first place is NO reason to reject it as pointless to have at all. Yeesh.

  122. karmanot says:

    Yep, and it never fails to astound me.

  123. karmanot says:

    “But at least they didn’t shoot him.” In California they would have shot him and claimed he was reaching for a concealed bedpan.

  124. BeccaM says:

    Greed always brings out the worst in people, I’ve learned.

  125. JamesR says:

    Exactly! And thanks. Always Cover Your Ass – and the ass of everyone you have legal responsibility for. You hold the empty or poisonous bag if others do not do their jobs, you gotta doublecheck everything. I try to do it with a smile, at first.

    Here’s a link I found at Towleroad that provides a great summary of what happened blow by blow:

    “Due to Allen’s sluggish state, the police determined he was a “danger to himself” and decided to take him to the hospital against his will.” These days he’s lucky they didn’t just shoot him dead. And their dog(s) if they had any. One family member calling police is often all it takes, because it takes two people and / or a police officer and / or (often after the fact) a doctor to involuntarily commit for a day or two, depending. Catching you after taking a sleeping pill or with the flu or a bad day – sluggish – suicidal – off to the Cuckoo’s nest. Unless you resist and they shoot you.

    This case seems even more egregious as it’s interference with ongoing treatment by a family member who’s been deliberately excluded… How police and hospitals could get dragged into this obvious dubiously legal power grab is so institutionally STUPID it beggars belief.

    But at least they didn’t shoot him.

  126. SkippyFlipjack says:

    No. Some reports said the hospital had one, some said the family requested it, but either way it’s apparently been removed.

  127. karmanot says:

    And one of their employees, Paula Grant, calls us ‘fags’ on her Facebook Page. http://stumbling-block.blogspo

  128. karmanot says:


  129. Pat says:

    He didn’t have legal standing for what he as ALREADY done.

  130. karmanot says:

    It’s a great group here, never a dull moment. Welcome!

  131. BeccaM says:

    And there we go: We have motive, above and beyond the obvious anti-gay bigot animus.

  132. karmanot says:

    How well I know that story. When my grandmother died it was like that scene in Zorba. It was like cockroaches coming to help ‘straighten out’ and stealing everything in sight. One of the ironies was the “ruby’ ring which went missing. Years later cousins were still fussing over, who got it. Twenty years went by when the discussion came up at a family re-union, when I said, you mean that red piece of glass Grandma won as a prize? The room went silent. Two generations of greed and envy withered before the truth. God, families are a pain in the ass. Protect yourselves GLTBQ’s.

  133. BeccaM says:

    Welcome to AmericaBlog. Kick back and enjoy the show. :-)

  134. karmanot says:

    Excellent advice. Also important, check daily the floor and nurse accounts of the patient and keep an eye out for ‘observations’ that are false or false information that is multiplied by redundant repetition of lazy staffers.