Fired HGTV hosts, Benham Bros., say evolution is “Satan’s toehold” in the classroom

In the “HGTV is thanking their lucky stars” category, religious right wondertwins Jason and David Benham, sons of anti-abortion firebrand Flip Benham, wrote on their blog earlier this month that evolution is “Satan’s toehold” in America’s schools.

The Benhams were in the news recently after they lost their TV show on HGTV after it was revealed that the one brother in particular, David, is a religious right nut who has issues with gays, Muslims and abortion. (David once famously compared gay marriage to Hitler — always a winner for softball daytime television.)

Well, now we find out that the Benhams also think evolution is like Satan.

From their blog:

The Benham boys, doing heterosexuality proud in their pastel shirts, perfectly coiffed hairdos, and fabulous hand gestures. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.)

The Benham boys, doing heterosexuality proud in their pastel shirts, perfectly coiffed hairdos, and fabulous hand gestures. (Not that there’s anything wrong with that.)

Satan comes to rob, kill, & destroy (John 10:10), so he generally starts his path to destruction with a simple toehold. All he wants to do is simply get a seat at the table…to start. Back in the 1960′s our nation allowed a toehold of sexual perversion – during the hippie sexual revolution – which has now become a stronghold of sexual anarchy in America. This stronghold masks itself in the form of diversity, inclusion, & tolerance.

Hmm, I wonder who in particular the Benhams think are perverts. It sure sounds like he means gays, which would include HGTV’s gay viewers, among others.  There’s more:

benham-make-upThere are other strongholds in America as well. At first, Satan got a toehold on life in the 1920′s with the Scopes Monkey Trial (evolution can be taught alongside creation). Eventually, of course, this toehold became a stronghold to where creation can no longer be taught at all. And the result, 1973′s Roe v. Wade. Without a Creator we now become the determiners of life instead of God.

Okay, did you catch that?  The Benhams think that even permitting evolution to be taught in our schools is Satanic.  They’re not just talking about not allowed creationism to be taught.  They think teaching evolution alongside creationism is Satanic.

And, wait, evolution led to Roe v. Wade?

benham-work-outSatan also has a stronghold in the entertainment industry, the marketplace, & our halls of education. In these spheres of culture it’s either silence or death (to your job/reputation).

Entertainment, huh. Would those be large-nosed Satans with horns?

Just moments ago, David Benham, the real firebreather, opined on Twitter: “Rejecting an idea is not the rejection of an individual. Thank God there’s a difference between sin & the sinner.”

Yes, he hates our sin, which is our existence, but he doesn’t hate us.  Isn’t that sweet?  I mean it’s like hating that black people are black, but not hating black people themselves. You just hate the fact that they’re black, and you hate all that black stuff they’re always doing, and all that black stuff they believe in, but you don’t hate them personally. Get it?

The tolerance, it burns.

Get back to us when the Benhams, who think you shouldn’t lose your job for being anti-gay, also believe that you shouldn’t lose your job for being gay.

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CyberDisobedience on Substack | @aravosis | Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn. John Aravosis is the Executive Editor of AMERICAblog, which he founded in 2004. He has a joint law degree (JD) and masters in Foreign Service from Georgetown; and has worked in the US Senate, World Bank, Children's Defense Fund, the United Nations Development Programme, and as a stringer for the Economist. He is a frequent TV pundit, having appeared on the O'Reilly Factor, Hardball, World News Tonight, Nightline, AM Joy & Reliable Sources, among others. John lives in Washington, DC. .

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231 Responses to “Fired HGTV hosts, Benham Bros., say evolution is “Satan’s toehold” in the classroom”

  1. lexi says:

    The producers of this show went to Texas to make another show about these kind of people. They just hide it better. Here’s the lady star’s twitter. I’m guessing their feelings are a lot these guys.

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  4. Jade says:

    They don’t believe in evolution, so … no hooves.

  5. Jade says:

    I was with you until “ignorant one.” It takes intelligence to recognize it in others. If you think BeccaM is ignorant than…

  6. Jade says:

    It is interesting. Think of those Wise Men who “came from the East.” And we don’t know how Jesus was educated during the early years of his life. All we know is that he showed up years later preaching Eastern Taoist concepts that went almost completely opposite of how the western Hebrew scriptures said we should live our lives.

    And he was killed for it.

  7. Steven says:

    I like the passion here. A college philosophy professor of mine, who was also a Southern Baptist preacher, categorically rejected the notion of a Hell for the reasons you mentioned: what kind of divine being punishes you eternally for finite sins? It’s a good question, and one most armchair Christians prefer to avoid.

  8. Badgerite says:

    Ok. True enough. I just hate the idea that they seize on the world ‘theory’ as if it is some “wild-ass guess” and don’t happen to notice all the evidence all around them including in the DNA of their own genes that supports this particular “wild-assed guess”.

  9. Aquaria says:

    Evolution is still a theory. In science, theory does not mean a wild-ass guess. It means something that’s been tested and is the best explanation for the phenomena we see.

    Science isn’t ceding the word to a bunch of scumbag christards who can’t think their way out of a paper bag.

  10. Aquaria says:

    The brainwashing starts early and goes on for years and years. There are tons of people part of the scam who make sure you stay brainwashed like them, too.

  11. Aquaria says:

    You’ve been told that’s not how it works, and you still LIE that way.

    It’s not our fault you’re too stupid from your genocidal filth delusion to learn about reality.

  12. Aquaria says:

    You’re not standing up for them, liar. You are making sure they’re a stupid and ignorant as you are, and won’t rest until you drive us all back to the murderous middle ages that your genocidal delusion is ever-so-fond of.

  13. Aquaria says:

    Religion AUTOMATICALLY creates exclusion and divisiveness. They cannot
    exist without “us” and “them.” As soon as you do that, you create
    discord and hate.

    It’s a feature of the delusion, not a bug.

    Even most of the “good” christers have a lot of hate in them, when you strip away the nicey facade. You’d be amazed how many of them think it’s normal and GOOD to punish people forever for finite crimes, only the most evil idea ever devised. It’s not like their deity doesn’t talk about torturing people–a LOT, you know. Do you need me to cite chapter and verse? I can.

    I have yet to have a christer NOT ask me as an atheist the most disgusting and terrifying: “Aren’t you worried about going to hell?” And it takes everything I have not to tell them I don’t associate with genocidal filth.

    Asking me that question indicates that they think not only that certain people will go to hell, but also that they’re FINE WITH IT, if you don’t start agreeing with them about their genocidal delusion. Please inform me how threatening people to agree with you or be tortured FOREVER isn’t hateful and disgusting?

    In my world, only evil people support torture, and only the most evil of people wouldn’t bat an eye at the idea of ETERNAL torture. If you’re a christer, you support eternal torture, the most evil thing ever devised.

    Do the math.

    So if you say you follow this scumbag, then you follow his idea of eternal torture. The fundies at least know what they’ve signed up for.

  14. Aquaria says:

    When was it NOT a religion of taunting and condemnation and alienation?

    They’ve only been murdering people over their genocidal delusion for over 1700 years now.

  15. Aquaria says:

    Humans are related to bananas, shit-for-brains. We share around 50% of the same DNA.




    It’s not our fault that you stuffed your head with genocidal filth delusions rather than reality and things worth knowing about, shit-for-brains.

  16. Aquaria says:

    Lenski is a hack. He’s not an authority on ANYTHING worth a damn, christard.

  17. Thom Allen says:

    ” . . . problem is, you people never want . . .” Generalize much or often? The “you people” phrase did a LOT of good for Ann and another flipper Mitt Rmoney, didn’t it? Or did you forget them already?

  18. Thom Allen says:

    Oh, you mean like Cliven Bundy did? Just laid claim to US lands as “his” cause he doesn’t believe in the US government? Or John Jacob Astor and some of the other robber barons? Or the banks who illegally foreclosed on numerous people or used crooked business practices to acquire their homes? No, we don’t have any Damned Savages here. Just like we don’t have racism, discrimination, or bigotry, either.

  19. Thom Allen says:

    No, they don’t argue then cause they’re with their own kind the other salasheep who just bleat “intelligent design, Benghaaaazi, prolife, etc.” The arguments start when a thinking human encounters one crawling from beneath its rock.

  20. bpollen says:

    Isn’t Capek the one who coined the word “robot”???

  21. bpollen says:

    So, is Neil Tyson Satan’s toenail?

    And, just to be clear, Scopes was found guilty of illegally teaching evolution, and the imposed fine was only overturned by the Tennessee Supreme Court because the jury should have determined the fine as opposed to the judge. So you don’t even understand the incident you use to support your “my interpretation of the bible get’s to decide” philosophy.

  22. Badgerite says:

    Evolution of life is no longer a theory, unless you posit that the deity made human DNA completely separate from all other DNA on earth and then just threw in the remnant DNA of former life forms to fool us. I guess that was Satan. We share DNA with other life on the planet. That would make us related. Book burners!

  23. Moderator3 says:

    A special thank you to everyone who has flagged these comments. This commenter has been banned, but his comments were not deleted. Sometimes you need to know what people like this are thinking.

  24. BillFromDover says:

    Yo Benham boys,

    Suck my dink… after battling over who gets 1st dubs.

    Can there be any more closeted weirdos than you two?

  25. AlexanderHamiltonsGhost says:

    Didn’t the Scopes trial find that evolution *couldn’t* be taught in Tennessee schools?

  26. 2patricius2 says:

    I suspect that with Bobby Jindal, it was not his brain that got turned off, but his spine.

  27. Jim says:

    Such a shock: christians find evolution satanic.
    Of course they do. Those who live in a world of mythology often find facts uncomfortable and challenging. That challenge must come from Satan, right?

    Just goes to prove that more often than not, christian = idiot.

  28. 4th Turning says:

    Is it just me-do their faces as well as consciousness appear sculpted out of Play-Doh?

  29. grannieannie2 says:

    Does that usually take place in Sunday School or in Sunday morning worship service? I know the majority of the choir ladies were female salamanders or at least they looked like it.

  30. Moderator4 says:

    Yes. Banished to the Spam folder.

  31. BeccaM says:

    That’s a rather bigoted attitude. ‘Damned Savages’? Really? Wow.

  32. Naja pallida says:

    I dunno, I had a pretty heated disagreement once with a ~50lb Japanese giant salamander who didn’t want to leave his tank. :)

  33. vickif says:

    BeccaM, you are my favorite person today. Keep up the good work.

  34. vickif says:

    That was in 1954.

  35. Tim says:

    Great Book – highly recommended!

    War with the Newts (Válka s mloky in the original Czech), also translated as War with the Salamanders, is a 1936 satirical science fiction novel by Czech author Karel Čapek. It concerns the discovery in the Pacific of a sea-dwelling race, an intelligent breed of newts, who are initially enslaved and exploited. They acquire human knowledge and rebel, leading to a global war for supremacy.

  36. kevinbenett says:

    More religious crazies, in the south there a dime a dozen, glad I don’t and won’t live anywhere near these types, there are offensive to anyone who can think for themselves.

  37. Thom Allen says:


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  39. Houndentenor says:

    Gore ran in 1988.

  40. dcinsider says:

    Every night.

  41. TheAngryFag says:

    Walter Mondale was Vice President and ran for election as President and that is often traditional as both GHW Bush did after Reagan and Gore did after Clinton.

    Neither Gore nor Mondale ran in primaries until they got the nomination.

  42. Houndentenor says:


    Mondale? Gore? Democrats do it too.

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  44. Graham says:

    Yes BECCA because we are suppose to give away lands for charity, houses free of interest profits and commercial investment returns like Oprah.

    Get a grip. It ain’t happening. If you want to buy, make an offer from which you think a house is worth. Flippers do it all the time, market competition dictates housing price.

    You want to be like in other countries like Africa, Mexico and the Philippines where squatter peasants just start stealing private owned lands by erecting tents and then demand the government to allow it? Go move to those countries then. Damned Savages. You’re not welcome in this country. We don’t operate like that here in the United States.

  45. Graham says:

    Hey MANCUNT, Banks are NOT charitable organizations. They were created by God for Profit and for Profit and for Profit.

    Now you need to drill in your head that almost all homeowners are Lazy and will not have the balls to carry a home renovation. People have lives and families and they are LAZY; that’s why they want turnkey homes. It’s the American way of life. And that lifestyle and convenience comes in a premium cost!

    Selling them to Flippers is the wise, profitable way to make a buck, gain a buck and profit a buck. That’s American Capitalism 101.

    If you have any more moral objections go complain to Judge Judy, damned imbecile.

  46. SkippyFlipjack says:

    Becca’s right about the predatory nature of flipping, which isn’t really the responsibility of those buying short-sale and foreclosed properties, but they d benefit from the actions of the banks. A bank will choose to sell a home at a discount rather than offer the homeowner a mortgage renegotiation that would ultimately net them the same amount as the sale. There is much wrong with the process, and it’s not as simple as enterprising fellows simply MAKING AN OFFER.. their gain is dependent on someone’s loss.

  47. Thom Allen says:

    There are some right-wing nutjobs, gun nuts and christianists who probably DO argue with salamanders. And the salamanders win every time.

  48. BeccaM says:

    If that’s what you need to tell yourself to sleep at night, and not think about whose stolen homes you’re buying on foreclosure and short-sales to turn a quick buck, so be it.

    Good day to you.

    p.s. You know nothing about me or my experiences.

  49. Graham says:

    And NO ONE is ever obligated to purchase a RENOVATED HOME. You can always buy a fixer upper if you want, problem is, you people never want to do any renovation work.

    You always ask for TURN KEY homes but never want to pay Full Asking price. Who wants to lose out on making a profit? Like what the flipper and real estate folks say, MAKE AN OFFER if you are serious. Money talks BS Walks!!!!

  50. Graham says:

    Obviously you have no knowledge in flipping real estate properties.

    Not all flippers use cheap low quality fixtures. Not everyone is like that. Sure there may be sleazy ones that do it but not all do.

    Serious flippers know try and try again that an educated seller meets educated buyers especially in this day and age. That is precisely why HGTV hosts these programs to show people the complexity of the flipping business.

    And NO BECCA, flipping a house is not 123. You have age, mold, termite, dated fixtures and ugly American changing tastes that merit hard work, plus marketing a property takes time and skill. Those things AINT FREE.

    Now before I end my lecture for you, ignorant one. Try getting a real estate license and see what hard job it is, or try taking on a renovation yourself. Selling high and buying LOW is business and profit! Now If you don’t like it because it does not suit your moral tastes and opinions, GO RENT an APARTMENT!

  51. Graham says:

    Judging by their age, they are products of the Sexual Revolution era. These closeted hypocrites are glaringly embarrassing.

  52. BillFromDover says:

    Like this is an either/or?

    Could ya expound on this statement?

  53. Jerry Stogsdill says:

    Hippie sexual revolution? Too bad their parents had sex……EVER!!

  54. pappyvet says:

    Oh Yes !

  55. pappyvet says:

    Only if he’s out on a Friday night with a well done shirt and a lot of attitude. ;]

  56. BillFromDover says:

    Has anybody tried substituting the Bible for a vibrator?


  57. Indigo says:

    Needy. He has to boss somebody around so there it is.

  58. BeccaM says:

    There are moral businesses and immoral businesses.

    Profiting off the crimes of the banks is immoral.

  59. Graham says:

    Flipping properties is not a crime. The issue is bigotry, hatred and homophobia.

    Don’t attack corporate America and capitalism. It is what makes this country great. Now If you have a problem with people buying low, and selling high in order to profit the market and further increase real estate value, GO start your own morality lecture in a classroom. Business is business. I’m sure you are also a lowballer and budgets from time to time.

  60. TheAngryFag says:

    But Regan spaced it out. These other clowns just keep running over and over.

  61. TheAngryFag says:

    But he ran as a fresh candidate in 2000 and won. No other Republican challenger has been fresh since the elder Bush ran in 1988.

  62. Graham says:

    TreasureislandMedia,com should give these two overgrown twinks their own show.

  63. Stev84 says:

    I wonder how they decided who got which color.

  64. Stev84 says:

    No, you don’t have to ask. You don’t feed the troll!

  65. Jean-Marc in Canada says:

    Wouldn’t that make it “Satan’s Cameltoe”?

  66. markofthebeasts says:

    When these people say things like “ever since” (usually the ’60s) and then point to what they see as societal decline, I always remember that their timeline ought to back up tad, to the time when they started inserting “god” onto money, into the pledge, etc. and blame bad things on that instead.

  67. pappyvet says:

    I myself prefer Yusef Ben Casey or Yusef Ben Gazzara. ;]

  68. Jafafa Hots says:

    Evolution DID lead to Roe v Wade.
    Before we evolved (long, long ago) from being egg-layers to being placental mammals, we could have just ignored the eggs or walked on them and crushed them like alligators sometimes do.

    Now, as placental mammals, we (or anyway the half of us capable of child-bearing) have to let the damned larvae gestate inside for what seems like ages, with all kinds of horrible consequences. In addition, to be able to expel these little parasites their heads have to be small, meaning they have to continue their development and dependence OUTSIDE for a freaking 18 years or more.

    No more burying the eggs in the sand and going about your business.
    No more spraying your milt on her pile of eggs in a stream and then both of you going off separately to lead your individual lives.

    Evolution, then, is also the cause of “family” and thus the cause of these damned :family values” jerks.

    We were better off as fish. Or at least salamanders.
    Have you ever had an argument with a salamander? No you have not.
    Have you ever been killed in a war started by salamanders? No you have not.

    I rest my case.

  69. The_Fixer says:


  70. The_Fixer says:

    That’s best said in a Homer Simpson voice, of course.

  71. The_Fixer says:

    Pray. It makes them look more pious, you know ;)

  72. pappyvet says:

    I suppose one of them is a brother from Wisconsin who wants ribs? ;]

  73. pappyvet says:

    Pray or prey ? These people do way too much of both.

  74. pappyvet says:

    Uhmmm ! Ribs

  75. The_Fixer says:

    He can take many forms :)

  76. The_Fixer says:

    And he’s got the teeth marks to prove it. He’ll probably try and pray them away, though…

  77. pappyvet says:

    “Satan’s tohold”? I thought the old boy had hooves.

  78. tracey marie says:

    making children into little morons is not helping them. We are not a theocracy, either deal in reality or move

  79. tracey marie says:

    take your inbred thumper offspring out of school. Let them become ignorant little thumpers like you

  80. The_Fixer says:

    Don’t forget Tricky Dick Nixon. Got the nom in 1960, and actually won in ’68.

    The dynamics were different in 1960 – it’s best to shave before you go on camera, and it helps if you don’t sweat like a roasting pig when in a debate. But it turned into a practice run, and he learned from his mistake of not taking television too seriously.

  81. pappyvet says:

    He isn’t smart enough to be a moron.

  82. pappyvet says:

    Snort !! Giggle !!

  83. pappyvet says:

    Morlock-like descendants? LOL !!!!

    Well as Gramps used to say,”Show em where the bear shit in the buckwheat.”

    Have no idea what that means but it was awesome . ;]

  84. BeccaM says:

    He was an amusing chew-toy while he lasted. ;-)

  85. pappyvet says:

    Damn ! I always get back too late to converse with one of you truly interesting people.

  86. BillFromDover says:

    I don’t want to say anything, but have either of these brothers tried sex with anybody other than their sibling?

    When I pointed my gaydar detector at these guys, it simply blew up in an eruption laughable flames.

    Why can’t these twins just accept why God made them as they are?

  87. BeccaM says:

    Thanks dear. ;-)

  88. BeccaM says:

    Well, y’know, incest and generations of in-breeding would tend to really f*ck up the genome… ;-) Might even explain the continued existence of modern-day science-denying dunderheads.


  89. lynchie says:

    Then of course if you believe God created all of us you must agree he created Gays and Lesbians.

  90. lynchie says:

    They believe science and technology have contributed nothing and believe the fiction in the Bible which has no proven studies to prove it is right . We have thousands of scientific articles and developments over the years which have allowed these two assholes to be alive. Did people work out and lift weights 100 years ago, 200, 500, 2000 of course not. The life span of someone 200 years ago was half of what it is today. Refrigeration, pasteurization, sewer treatment, clean water, soap and cleansers all the result of science and technology allows these two pin heads to be alive. I truly hate the religious assholes who base their lives on a book of fiction.

  91. BeccaM says:

    True, recently, But Reagan ran twice (68, 76) before securing the nomination, and I’m sure even the GOP losers now want to keep comparing themselves to him.

  92. BeccaM says:

    There’s no room for more than two thoughts — both of them wrong — in his head at the same time.

  93. Thom Allen says:

    Nice try, Andy. But you know since isotopes, crystallography and DNA aren’t mentioned in the bible, they must be lies of Satan and are used to steal the souls of those unlearned in the scripture.

  94. PeteWa says:

    mmmm you are feisty today!

  95. The_Fixer says:

    He’s on a mission… from GOD!

    It’s clear that he actually thinks that he’s fighting the “good fight.”

    I just think that he’s a dunderhead.

  96. Moderator3 says:

    How nice. A thank you note.

  97. The_Fixer says:

    Yeah, he’s basically an idiot. It’s sad that, in this day and age, people like this have voice and can spout off, that some move on to become politicians, and still others support them and demand that policy be made to suit their beliefs.

    I hope that someday science finds a cure for this ;)

  98. BeccaM says:

    There actually are a great many fine, upstanding good-hearted Christians out there.

    But the haters get most of the press because, contrary to what their own holy book says, they believe they’re supposed to stand in the street, shout their prayers, and oppress unbelievers.

    The key is recognizing the difference between fundamentalist Christianity — which really is philosophically aligned with most other intolerant, fundamentalist faiths in terms of wanting to force their beliefs and cultural practices on everyone — and those who actually know and practice what is good, decent, and kind.

    It’s often mentioned how ‘radical Islam’ is a stain on humanity and a source of violence and suffering. Well, ‘radical Christianism’ is, too. But neither of those is a good reason to paint all Muslims or all Christians with the same brush.

  99. Thom Allen says:

    There’s now a bridge in Brooklyn that is being renamed “Cameron’s.”

  100. BeccaM says:

    I saw that. And with overt fundamentalist Bible-humping behind most of them. Rarely have I seen such single-minded obsession.

  101. Thom Allen says:

    Could be, or maybe he’s just a Benham freak, maybe god spoke to him today, he’s back form Wednesday bible study or his medications ran out. His next post probably would have been about how Obama evolved on gay marriage and therefore evolution is an Obama doctrine and then Benghaaaaaaaazi . . .

  102. The_Fixer says:

    It’s perfectly consistent with the belief that man was made from dust, and women were made from a rib. And that subsequent generations came to be without incest.

    Damnit, now I want ribs for supper!

  103. emjayay says:

    I really don’t understand how certain religious beliefs seem to almost completely turn off people’s brains. Like Rhodes Scholar Bobby Jindal for example. They glom onto a few simple reality defying explanations, and all logic and objective facts go right out the window.

  104. cole3244 says:

    its easier to breathe if you pull your head out of the sand or your ass if it pleases you.

  105. BeccaM says:

    Wow… you’re right. He is TOTALLY obsessed with evolution and hating The Gays.

    I see he’s apparently wandered over to Mother Jones where he’s whining about being banned here — and posting more repetitive Bible-humping BS. I wonder how long it’ll be before they ban him there, too.

  106. emjayay says:

    Like I mentioned below somewhere, his very repetitive almost 3000 comments only had pretty much two topics, evolution and the gayz.

  107. D B says:

    I guess I’m confused but why are we still talking about these losers. Please don’t tell me their famous because they DIDN’T get on TV. This website as well as all the rest of the media world should stop giving these guys a platform to spew their hate.

  108. emjayay says:

    By Immaculate Conception not involving penises or anything, so it was special.

  109. emjayay says:

    I wonder why a single person would take the time to post close to 3000 comments essentially about only two topics, evolution and the gayz. And most of them repetitive cut and pasted or maybe memorized claims and phrases with no actual discussion of any topic.

  110. BeccaM says:

    ‘Profound misunderstanding’ is all he has.

  111. emjayay says:

    Maybe his 700 wives and 300 concubines. Not sure if the 700 wives would do it given their royal birth. Oh wait, never mind, that was Solomon.

  112. BeccaM says:

    You’re so sweet! You always give us the best presents.

  113. BeccaM says:

    Maybe that’s why today’s special guest troll has been spending so much time here, peddling his bronze age myths.

  114. AndyinChicago says:

    I fear you don’t understand how science works. People create a hypothesis, then they do an experiment, they look at the data they collect, and then they assess whether their hypothesis has gained or lost credence. It’s hard to prove or disprove anything, but we can statistically consider something true if it becomes so improbable with all the evidence collected that another possibility exists.

    Evidence for human evolution is readily available for you to test your hypothesis that it’s less likely than frog to human transformations. We have techniques for DNA sequencing, isotope dating, fossil records, sociological data, protein crystallography, etc.. We do not have good statistics on frog/prince transformations. I happily nominate you to look into this phenomenon. Take your time doing the research.

    You want to trash talk science, cool, but understand what it is. Understand it’s how we know that your heart medication works, it’s how we know that the water you drink is free of cholera, it’s how we build computers and the internet you use to be a troll. It is easier just to keep repeating yourself ad nauseam, but it’s more rewarding to learn about what you’re talking about.

  115. Thom Allen says:

    Brief hijack for a happier note. Pennsylvania will NOT appeal the decision overturning the ban on same-sex marriage there. Pennsylvania is officially a marriage equality state now. Bet santorum and the Benhams are having major sadz.

  116. The_Fixer says:

    I’ve taken a look at your comment history, and it is most distressing.

    You are the living example of someone who cannot reason their way out of a cardboard box. I am done debating with you. Your refusal to argue intelligently is insulting.

    You are the living example of why it is important – now more than ever – to have a robust wall of separation between church and state. People who believe as you do run a real risk of holding society back because you refuse to embrace the modern world.

    And you’re a bit of a hypocrite. You eschew scientific reasoning on the one hand, yet you use the benefit of science – your computer – to spread your bronze-age beliefs.

    Good Day!

  117. BeccaM says:

    Interestingly, over in India it is a common belief that the supposed Yeshua bin Yusef fellow spent some of his early adult years there, learning their philosophies.

  118. emjayay says:

    Well, George W Bush got to be president. A little like the Hillary Clinton situation, except for being lazy and not too bright.

  119. emjayay says:

    Sometimes the new face is a highly acclaimed general from the last big war. David Patraeus comes to mind. Oh wait, never mind.

  120. PeteWa says:

    I had a room mate in college who did this same thing over the Summer one year.
    When I got back in the Fall, and ran into him, he told me about how he had spent his Summer.
    I was astounded that he had done what he seemed to be so proud of, and after talking to him for a while about it, he mentioned that he had made in those four months around a million dollars.
    He bought his parents a house, and had tons of money left over.
    The only reason he stopped? He said that the pressure was too much. The thought that he wouldn’t be able to flip one of the houses he bought for no money down kept him up at night.
    At that point I basically told him the same things you brought up, and it didn’t seem to register, he couldn’t seem to make the moral math work out… and he, like these two dolts, was a “christian”… he found it very upsetting that I did not believe in sky faeries, especially big daddy sky faerie and his lil baby Jesus.
    Strange to think that was three decades ago.

  121. emjayay says:

    Only a tiny number of identifiable examples of any animal or plant survive as fossils – only under a combination of highly unusual circumstances. It’s amazing how many have been found including ones actually millions of years old. Of course, we haven’t exactly dug up the whole planet to a depth of 100 feet to find everything.

  122. Thom Allen says:

    But believing that God was made man, was crucified and died and arose from the dead is factual? Suuuuure, Dan.

  123. The_Fixer says:

    Not to mention, who got to clean their litterboxes, and what did they do with all of the crap? Just dump it overboard?

    Oh wait, the miracle of God took care of all of that!

  124. emjayay says:

    It must have been awfully crowded in there what with at least one dinosaur couple weighing about 150 tons. Plus water and dino snacks for 40 days. Also, large shovels.

  125. Thom Allen says:

    Now you’ve done it. The christianists want to know where you live . . .

  126. The_Fixer says:

    Oh, and the “Golden Rule” predates the bible, too :) I think it came from the Buddhists or ancient Chinese, but it did not originate with the bible. Like all of the good stuff in the bible, it was cribbed from other writings from other cultures.

  127. emjayay says:

    Hey it and the Ark story and probably others are versions of tales told around the campfire for probably many thousands of years before the Bible in various areas of the world so they must be true.

  128. BeccaM says:

    Computers aren’t in the Bible. You should destroy yours right now.

  129. Moderator3 says:

    He should be resting now.

  130. TheAngryFag says:

    True. The unfortunate thing is Hillary would start that problem on the democrat side.

  131. heimaey says:

    LOL (Lucifer our Lord)

  132. emjayay says:

    Well, fairy tales as fairy tales are cool. Possibly Santa up to the age of seven, but I’m not totally sure about that one.

  133. The_Fixer says:

    From your cited source:

    Cryptozoology… is a pseudoscience involving the search for animals whose existence has not been proven. The animals cryptozoologists study are often referred to as cryptids, a term coined by John Wall in 1983.[1] This includes looking for living examples of animals that are considered extinct, such as non-avian dinosaurs; animals whose existence lacks physical evidence but which appear in myths, legends, or are reported, such as Bigfoot and Chupacabra;[2] and wild animals dramatically outside their normal geographic ranges, such as phantom cats (also known as Alien Big Cats).

    You have a profound misunderstanding of the source material you quote. Human ancestors are not cryptids. There is fossil evidence, ample examples of such, for various ancestors of modern humans.

    Flatly stated, you are wrong and so is your premise.

  134. emjayay says:

    Well, if it’s for the children……
    Damnit, I hate it when I feed the trolls.

  135. Dan Cameron says:

    “Echoing the criticism made of his father’s habilis skulls, he added that Lucy’s skull was so incomplete that most of it was ‘imagination made of plaster of Paris’, thus making it impossible to draw any firm conclusion about what species she belonged to.”

    Referring to comments made by Richard Leakey (Director of National Museums of Kenya) in The Weekend Australian, 7-8 May 1983, Magazine, p. 3

  136. BeccaM says:

    You mean standing up for keeping children ignorant, permitted only to believe in the long-since easily disproven myths of an ignorant, bronze age people.

    You’re not ‘standing up for children.’ You advocate the oppression of the human mind and all the achievements that science — all of it — has made possible. Including the computer you are now using to spew your repetitive, un-sourced, unsupported ignorance in every direction.

    And no, you don’t get to keep pointing to a much-translated book written by men who had no idea what science is as proof of anything. That same book not only erroneously put the Earth at the center of the entire cosmos and has a creation fable entirely at odds with observable facts, it also says — repeatedly — that slavery and genocide are totally cool. There are a few good bits in there, like the Golden Rule, but otherwise it is a profoundly immoral tome.

    You disgust me. And I hope with every fiber of my being you are never allowed to decide what children may and may not learn. What you propose is nothing less than child abuse and the deliberate degradation of a human’s fullest potential as a thinking, rational being. If you actually do have children of your own, I pity them and the stunted, intellectually crippled future you would force upon them.

    You keep right on crawling around in the mud and pissing yourself whenever it thunders because you and your pitiful Morlock-like descendants have chosen to forget what causes lightning. The rest of us — the educated, the critical thinkers, and the scientists — are going to reach for the stars.

  137. borbor1 says:

    those poor, pathetically limited children you creationists turn out who can’t think for themselves.

  138. Dan Cameron says:

    Believing in the fairy tale of human evolution is like believing a frog turns into a prince.

  139. jomicur says:

    Jesus instructed his one of his followers not to bury his recently deceased father (Matthew 8:21-22). Have you followed suit? Or, if your father is still alive, do you plan to leave him unburied when he dies? If not…BLASPHEMY!

  140. Dan Cameron says:

    “Cryptozoology (from Greek κρυπτός, kryptos, “hidden” + zoology; literally, “study of hidden animals”) is a pseudoscience involving the search for animals whose existence has not been proven.” –

    The human evolution “common ancestor” false belief has no fossil identification, no one will ever provide it.

  141. River Lizard says:

    Standing up for children?? Are you kidding us, that’s the worst thing you can do is try to teach children in fairy tales. Sounds like you missed an education when you were growing up too. Read a few books and learn something that’s based on evidence vs a book that has zero evidence of being true.

  142. jomicur says:

    That’s right. Just keep repeating that same lame rubbish. Type it ten or twenty more times. But be sure you don’t offer the least iota of evidence for it. You really, really, really do have a chance of convincing somebody that way. ROFL!

  143. Lthomas320 says:

    Cite your sources, please.

  144. Dan Cameron says:

    Re: “Humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor..”

    That’s incorrect, the human evolution “common ancestor” is cryptozoology pseudoscience.

  145. The_Fixer says:

    You have an incorrect idea of how evolution works. Evolution does not dictate that “family organisms evolve into other family organisms”. This goes back to the incorrect belief that humans evolved from apes. Humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor; one did not evolve from the other. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of evolutionary biology if you believe that one evolved into the other.

    You assertion that a God created man is unproven to start with – and does not account for how such a God would have created humankind. But let’s assume, for a moment, that there is a God and that this God did create the human race. Could such a God chosen evolution to do the job? Many religions believe exactly that, and that the story of creation in the bible is a mere representation of the process rather than a literal account of such. All available evidence says that it did not happen the way it is described in your bible. Scientifically, and logically, it could have not happened that way, according to real-world evidence. Do you think that, assuming that there is indeed a God, he would have disclosed such technical details to a bunch of people who clearly had no capability to understand such scientific detail? Further, how does one account for the various races of humans within the larger group? If we’re all descended from one pair of master parents, how come there are so many different kinds of us?

    I’ve given you some reasoning here; respond in kind with detail, please.

  146. Lthomas320 says:

    Most of the episodes are still available online for free for up to 53 days at

  147. BeccaM says:

    Y’know what’s really evil? Buying houses at a fraction of their actual worth, available only because someone else had some really bad luck — an illness, long term unemployment, a death in the family, or an accident. And often only because a mortgage company, acting in bad faith, foreclosed on it — quite probably illegally, using faked title and mortgage paperwork.

    Evil is then doing the minimum necessary to fix up said house and then selling it for lots of money, without actually doing anything productive for the betterment of society.

    Evil is the parasitism of profiting off other people’s misfortune and misery.

    Absent in much of the reporting on this HGTV show was the intended subject of it: The Benham brothers and their business of ‘flipping’ properties. Buying low, always on foreclosures and short-sales, fixing and cleaning a little, then selling at a massive profit. And behind every episode would’ve been the absent, invisible former owner.

  148. SkippyFlipjack says:

    I wish HG hadn’t cancelled their show. It would have been a fun reality show if people called them on all this kind of bullshit.

  149. Dan Cameron says:

    Insulting me won’t stop me from standing up for children. It’s better I’m insulted for standing up for the truth of creation than children.

  150. Steven says:

    Again, I agree with just about everything you wrote. That mixing of political-religious-economic philosophies, combined with a media that props it up at every opportunity, really has taken over one of the two major political parties in this nation. Astounding.

  151. BeccaM says:

    Give it a rest, moron.

  152. Dan Cameron says:

    Either the false belief of human evolution needs to be taken out of schools or children taken out of schools that teach the false belief of human evolution.

  153. AndyinChicago says:

    I have friends who have had abortions, and people threatening their rights upset me. I am gay, and I have little tolerance for homophobia. But people who trash talk science, that pisses me off to no end. I become a hot ball of rage. It’s the principal we lead our lives by. Those clean gyms the Benhams work out in? Sterile because of advancement of germ theory, once thought to be against god. Safe makeup for their appearances on TV? Chemistry and technology. The thing is, if we can’t agree on science, then we give an in for homophobia and misogyny. We can tie correlation of homosexuality to loci in the genome. We can statistically show the equivalence in intelligence between the genders and races. But we have to agree on science. And evolution is the basis for modern biology; it ties how we do cancer research and and bio-fuel research. If you really want to drag education away from modern science and make it inaccessible, you almost shouldn’t have the luxury of benefiting from our advances in technology and medicine.

  154. BeccaM says:

    It demonstrates nothing of the sort and your assertion has nothing to do with natural selection or legitimate evolutionary science or biology.

    Take your bronze-age mythology trolling elsewhere. It will not find fertile ground among those of us who have been educated and can think critically.

  155. Dan Cameron says:

    It demonstrates bacteria is still bacteria, human evolution claims family organisms evolve into different family organisms which is shown to be false.

  156. Hue-Man says:

    The recently-announced discovery of a 12,000 year old human skeleton in underwater caves in the Yucatan Peninsula suggests that human evolution can happen very quickly.

    “So why do modern Native Americans look so different from the first
    Americans? Chatters told the journal that Native Americans, who have
    flatter, rounder faces, represented a more “domesticated” population
    that settled down as farmers in the Americas.
    There are other explanations, though. David Meltzer at Southern
    Methodist University in Dallas puts the differences down to “genetic
    drift”, a random evolutionary process that gradually altered the
    appearance of Native Americans over thousands of years.”

    The most recent Cosmos episode raised some interesting evolutionary ideas, particularly how DNA could be transported from planet to planet and from star systems to other systems within the Milky Way galaxy.

  157. BeccaM says:

    Which is it? You link to a story where researchers prove natural selection works. And then simply deny it with no evidence whatsoever.

    If that was your intent, please, take your ignorance elsewhere.

  158. Dan Cameron says:

    Nature demonstrates human evolution is a false belief, family organisms don’t evolve into other family organisms.

    The false belief of human evolution is holding society back for various reasons, one is it goes against the truth of God creating man.

  159. 2patricius2 says:

    Dan (Kirk?) Cameron’s belief is that it is a fact that human evolution is a false belief. He just left off the part about it being his belief.

  160. The_Fixer says:

    Well, you responded to my question, but did not answer it. You merely made an assertion and, once again, made an unsubstantiated claim.

    If you come in here and make assertions, you at least have to give us some commentary with supporting arguments.

    Again, by whose measure is evolution a false belief?

    As to your second assertion, how is such a belief holding society back?

    Really, answer the questions. You can’t expect to come in here, make outrageous statements, and not expect to be challenged when you do so.

  161. Naja pallida says:

    Mark 4:11/12 has an explanation for it though… Jesus says the reason he speaks in parables and intentionally difficult to decipher metaphoric language is specifically so that people will misunderstand and sin.

  162. 2patricius2 says:

    Ordinarily I don’t like to feed trolls, but sometimes it is fun.

  163. Duke Woolworth says:

    OMG, my gaydar is throbbing, and I’m straight.

  164. emjayay says:

    Well, at least Miss Sarah was a governor for a while before she quit and was bizarrely chosen as an actual vice presidential candidate by a major party. What has kept her in the spotlight is cleverly written snark produced by a team of writers that is red meat to the low information Fox News watching crowd. Being angry is much more fun and way easier than thinking and learning.

  165. 2patricius2 says:

    I don’t think he knows anything new. His pastor didn’t teach him any more.

  166. 2patricius2 says:

    There are two episodes left. I think that next episode will be talking about climate change. I just finished watching Carl Sagan’s series for the first time a few days ago – got it through my library. It too is very educational and impressive.

  167. emjayay says:

    Please type something new.

  168. Dan Cameron says:

    The deception of human evolution discrimination has no place in society.

    “Ota Benga (circa 1883[1] – March 20, 1916) was a Congolese man, an Mbuti pygmy known for being featured in an anthropology exhibit at the Louisiana Purchase Exposition in St. Louis, Missouri in 1904, and in a controversial human zoo exhibit in 1906 at the Bronx Zoo. … Displays of non-Western humans as examples of “earlier stages” of human evolution were common in the early 20th century, when racial theories were frequently intertwined with concepts from evolutionary biology.” –

  169. 2patricius2 says:

    What was it made out of? straw?

  170. Houndentenor says:

    roflol. Good one.

  171. emjayay says:

    I was going to remind everyone to not feed the troll as it is just pointless.
    But here I am, suggesting that a careful rewatching of the new Cosmos series on Fox on Sunday nights might be instructive. It’s been going for a while but I’m guessing they will restart it from the beginning at least once and eventually your local public library will probably have it on dvd. Each episode is good, but the whole thing from the beginning really paints the big picture.

  172. cole3244 says:

    just because you haven’t evolved proves nothing.

  173. Houndentenor says:

    He went for Mark. I was hoping for Genesis because the order of creation there makes no sense (and is demonstrably wrong).

  174. Dan Cameron says:

    It would seem the house I’m sitting in right now didn’t evolve from a tree.

  175. Houndentenor says:

    The “it’s my turn now” candidate almost never wins for either party. It could be argued that those folks only ever got nominated because any serious contender avoided running in those years, but I think that Americans get tired of the same old faces. The press corps loves them because new people require work to learn them and learn about them. The public wants something new. I’d say this would be a liability for Clinton in 2016 but I think the GOP is likely to nominate someone so revolting that she could win in the biggest landslide in a long time.

  176. ericxdc says:

    you have my admiration for even trying at this…

  177. Houndentenor says:

    And we can verify this scientifically?

  178. Houndentenor says:

    In the late 70s early 80s I remember the Dominionist ideas creeping into Baptist teachings (mostly in the Sunday School literature). I was perplexed at the time (still very religious) to read promises God made to the Israelites being applied to America. I don’t know how this got into mainstream Evangelical groups but the origins of this line of thinking are heinous. At the same time there was a concerted effort, mainly at Wheaton College, to merge Fundamentalist Christianity with the economic ideas of Ayn Rand. Of course both Jesus and Rand would have found each other morally repugnant (Ayn openly says so about the teachings of Jesus) but it stuck. Not that most Baptists have ever read Atlas Shrugged but you’ll often hear statements about social policy like food stamps or health care that are straight out of the Objectivist playbook. The people who say these things think they are loving and kind. I don’t find them to be so and telling them they are not is a waste of time. They watch only Fox News and listen to right wing talk radio as often as possible. There’s not much point trying to have a rational discussion about anything with them. (he said from experience of talking to his relatives)

  179. 2patricius2 says:

    But a wooden barn and a wooden house share common ancestors – trees.

  180. ericxdc says:

    N’uh Uh!

    (There. Argument perfectly countered.)

  181. Naja pallida says:

    “My imaginary friend says so.” is not evidence of anything, aside from your own personal shortcomings.

  182. Dan Cameron says:

    A house and a barn use similar materials, but that doesn’t mean a barn evolved into a house.

  183. 2patricius2 says:

    Are you related to Kirk Cameron?

  184. 2patricius2 says:

    I guess your comments illustrate why we share so many genes with all these other species. We are not related. (snark)

  185. TheAngryFag says:

    Jesus speaks to you? There’s medication that can fix that.

  186. TheAngryFag says:

    Back to Zandalar now, troll.

  187. TheAngryFag says:

    I think the one in the pink shirt would get jealous though.

  188. TheAngryFag says:

    Shhh! Truth scares these people. So do such dangerous innovations such as the wheel and fire.

  189. TheAngryFag says:

    You’re right. Republicans still have not learned that if you run until you get the nomination, you will lose. If you weren’t good enough the first time, you think the US will elect today’s loser tomorrow?

    Of the last 4 presidential elections where there was a Republican challenger (1996, 2000, 2008, and 2012), only 2000 had a new candidate. Bob Dole ran until he got the nomination in 1996 and lost to Clinton. McCain ran until he got the nomination in 2008 and lost to Obama, and Mitt Romney repeated that loss in 2012.

  190. Dan Cameron says:

    The oppression of the false belief of human evolution forced on children in school.

  191. ericxdc says:

    OK, review completed. and hey, I still believe in facts. And, pity willful ignorance.

  192. Dan Cameron says:

    Jesus tells the truth, we were created. “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ – Mark 10:6

  193. Steven says:

    Yes, I think you may be right. We just don’t hear as much from the Methodists and Episcopalians because “the squeaky wheel gets the oil.” At least I hope that’s the case, because I would hate to think that all the decency and goodness had been drummed out of these folks by leaders (and media outlets) who feed on their fears and (perhaps) subconscious prejudices.